US Aid to Haiti

Moxon

Registered
gouchobob said:
This is certainly a very slanted and one-sided view of relations between Haiti and the U.S. For a more balanced view read the following on the history between the U.S. and Haiti.

http://www.answers.com/topic/haiti-relations-with

Still don't see what this has to do with whatts happening today.
The quote is there. Sergio questioned whether France should be doing more as it colonised Haiti, I agree but was merely demonstrating that there was a more recent colonial relationship than that with the French, certainly there are other aspects to the relationship but I was focusing on some of the examples where the US has treated Haiti as a client state.
 

bradlyhale

Registered
brocolliandtea said:
Sergio knows his country and the generosity of its people. In fact people all over the world have chipped in and donated. Meanwhile, the Haitian elite have armed guards posed to shoot anyone who threatens them. This elite wouldnt cross the street to help another Haitian.

I have to say I find this vocal group of anti americans quite despicable. I believe they must just be a minority of lazy people who are lucky enough to live off the success of the USA and rebuilt Europe. If they traded lives with a typical Argentine their same age, theyd sing a different tune. They move here to do nothing, to live like the rich Argentines do. Back home they haunted Wal-Mart, but here can lunch where the lemon chiffon-haired elite old ladies meet, no doubt bemoaning the lack of coup de etats these days.

These expats have endless hours to post on websites like this one. Its a free for all of ignorance and self delusion. They consider everything about their country evil, yet walk the broken sidewalks of Buenos Aires with its hot buses spewing clouds of black smoke, screeching like airplanes (govt. too corrupt to inspect vehicles and too corrupt to make owners repair their vehicles) and think theyre in paradise.

They gather in expat bars and are pissed by 6pm. Stumbling home, they find the maid has left. They live off foreign incomes, they live off the expat market. They love it here, they hate it there.

I consider their unpatriotic rants despicable and have no respect for Mr. and Ms. Big Bucks from abroad who think its nice to be here as long as you dont have to live like the locals do (work 2 jobs, earn peanuts, hardly be able to feed yourself, go without shoes because you never have the money, cram yourself onto super crowded buses with no ac or heat, the long drawn faces of the unhappy populatoin clinging to their handbags in terror, arrive an hour late for work because of the latest road blocks, etc., etc., scramble for coins because the presidents promise of last year was just another lie, etc . etc, drink tap water because who can afford 6 pesos for crappy juice).

Where shall we eat out tonight?
Ah, this is my favorite argument. It seems that anyone who questions the United States is an unpatriotic loser who doesn't work hard enough and doesn't understand the realities of the world, thus his/her opinion doesn't matter.

What is so reprehensible about someone questioning what a government does? Isn't that why we have democracy?

I find this argument fascinating because it was instilled into me from a very young age. I was told not to question religion; I was told not to question my authority figures; I was told not to question school teachers; I was told to question nothing.

The only reason that a society has ever changed is because someone, somewhere was brave enough to stand up and ask a question. Why can't people of black skin be free? Why can't people who are black vote? Why can't women vote? Why can't black and female Americans serve in the military? Why can't gays and lesbians serve openly in the military? Why can't gays and lesbians get married? And so on, and so on..

If it weren't for people asking questions and realizing that reason is more powerful than nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, patriotism, etc., where would we be?
 

citygirl

Registered
As I mentioned, I'm pretty sure that the majority of vehemently anti-American posters are not American nor Argentine. For example, Orwellian isn't from the US (has posted that he has never been there actually) and has only been here in Argentina for a few months according to another post.

I absolutely agree that the US is FAR from perfect. And I also believe that despite the generosity of its people (and I think it is there without question), US foreign policy is always motivated by its own self-interest. I'm pretty sure every other country's policy is as well;)

I question the decisions that the US (which happens to be my) government makes when I don't agree with it. I vote based on those questions and answers. What I mind abhorrent is the extremism on either side - the US is EVIL or the US is THE BEST COUNTRY EVER AND NEVER DOES ANYTHING WRONG. The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between the two, as it does for every country.
 

SaraSara

Registered
That explains Orwellian's adamant views about the States and Argentina - the greatest "experts" are always people who have been in a country less than a year.

I quite agree that the US is far from perfect - so are all other countries. But it is silly, and self-defeating, to shift blame to the US instead of trying to put your own house in order.

People who blame the US for all their problems are unlikely to seek their own solutions. They are also suckers for the self-serving propaganda of the local government, always eager to hide its ineptitude by blaming all the country's problems on the US.

In the US, this is called the "Massa" mentality: blaming everything on the plantation's master. It leads nowhere.

citygirl said:
As I mentioned, I'm pretty sure that the majority of vehemently anti-American posters are not American nor Argentine. For example, Orwellian isn't from the US (has posted that he has never been there actually) and has only been here in Argentina for a few months according to another post.

I absolutely agree that the US is FAR from perfect. And I also believe that despite the generosity of its people (and I think it is there without question), US foreign policy is always motivated by its own self-interest. I'm pretty sure every other country's policy is as well;)

I question the decisions that the US (which happens to be my) government makes when I don't agree with it. I vote based on those questions and answers. What I mind abhorrent is the extremism on either side - the US is EVIL or the US is THE BEST COUNTRY EVER AND NEVER DOES ANYTHING WRONG. The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between the two, as it does for every country.
 

orwellian

Registered
So if you're not American or Argentine, you're an extremist. I love your reasoning.


citygirl said:
I absolutely agree that the US is FAR from perfect. And I also believe that despite the generosity of its people (and I think it is there without question), US foreign policy is always motivated by its own self-interest. I'm pretty sure every other country's policy is as well;)
The problem isn't that. The problem is that you give military aid and disguise it as humanitarian aid.
 

SaraSara

Registered
orwellian said:
So if you're not American or Argentine, you're an extremist. I love your reasoning.
Glad you like it. Stick around long enough and you'll learn more about good reasoning. This old dog knows a few tricks.
 

Ernest

Registered
I'm baaaaack....aren't you glad to see me Orwellian?
So if you're not American or Argentine, you're an extremist. I love your reasoning.
No, wrong again - the point is that you have little to no actual experience in either Argentina or the US, yet you profess to have all the answers and are an expert on what they have done, how they think and fully know the nuances of their international relationships. I'm sure you will pick a few words out of this reply from which to twist a sage response, but you post completely wrong information and become irritated when someone points out your folly. By the way, rockets were invented by the Chinese in the 9th Century, not the Nazis as you said yesterday - nor did they invent "freeways"..."freeways" were a Roman invention.

That's all for today - why don't you try to learn from instead of fighting against those that know?
 

orwellian

Registered
I don't need any experience to know something about a country. The United States happens to currently be the bully of the world. It could be any country, but now it just happens to be yours. So stop being so god damn proud and open your eyes. See how many innocent civilians die directly or indirectly due to your government.

And Chinese invented gun powder, it's not the same as rockets that shoot out into space. I would have thought that was obvious, but I guess not with you.

"...where the Autobahn would become the first national freeway system."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeway
Sure if you wanna argue that they didn't invent it, just continued developing a per-existing idea, you can. But the same can be said for the inventions that were thought up in the States. And do you seriously think that a country who almost won WWII wouldn't have the capacity to invent stuff?
 

SaraSara

Registered
orwellian said:
I don't need any experience to know something about a country.
George W. Bush thought the same.

:D:D:D

FYI, the Chinese not only invented gunpowder but also fireworks - essentially, miniature rockets.
 
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