US Aid to Haiti

[gouchobob]

Great Britain invaded Argentina twice, occupied the Malvinas, and plundered the country for years, yet the British are admired. The US never had much to do with this corner of the world, and it is hated/envied. Go figure.

The U.S. has had two wars with Britain, and in the second the Brits even burned down the white house. Relations were very testy for much of the 19th century. This goes back in time as far as the dispute over the Malvinas/Falklands here. Obviously problems between the U.K. and U.S got resolved. One gets the feeling here that the Malvinas dispute will never go away. The whole dispute has always struck me as pointless. I agree with your view that U.S. has never had much to do with this part of the world. I think part of the answer why the U.S. is disliked in some circles is certainly envy and another reason not brought up before is that the U.S. is often used by local politicians as a scapegoat to blame for problems or to divert attention away from problems that are of their own making. Although this is usually fairly transparent some of it is bound to stick with some people when its repeated enough times. You can certainly see this in several instances in Latin America today.

 

[orwellian]

The U.S. has had two wars with Britain, and in the second the Brits even burned down the white house. Relations were very testy for much of the 19th century. This goes back in time as far as the dispute over the Malvinas/Falklands here. Obviously problems between the U.K. and U.S got resolved. One gets the feeling here that the Malvinas dispute will never go away. The whole dispute has always struck me as pointless. I agree with your view that U.S. has never had much to do with this part of the world. I think part of the answer why the U.S. is disliked in some circles is certainly envy and another reason not brought up before is that the U.S. is often used by local politicians as a scapegoat to blame for problems or to divert attention away from problems that are of their own making. Although this is usually fairly transparent but some of it is bound to stick with some people when its repeated enough times. You can certainly see this in several instances in Latin America today.

Yeah because the U.S had nothing to do with the neo-liberal policies that were introduced here. Or that they trained the military in torture techniques. No, it's all envy. They hate your freedom, that's what it is right?

 

[sesamosinsal]

Bradley Why not? What are you afraid of? That they show up in New Orleans and then build Kremlin west? Most citizens of the USA have fire arms - there is no power on earth that can force the US population into subservience except the powers in Washington DC - but that's a whole other topic.

Don't be ridiculous. I don't think I'll ever live to see the day when the United States of America would even THINK about allowing a foreign military to setup shop on U.S. soil.

If the powers in Washington, D.C. can force us into subservience, why couldn't any other power? And what makes you think that the powers in D.C. are any different than the powers in another country?

P.S. Bradly*, no 'e'.

 

[Moonwitch]

The U.S. has had two wars with Britain, and in the second the Brits even burned down the white house. Relations were very testy for much of the 19th century. This goes back in time as far as the dispute over the Malvinas/Falklands here. Obviously problems between the U.K. and U.S got resolved. One gets the feeling here that the Malvinas dispute will never go away. The whole dispute has always struck me as pointless. I agree with your view that U.S. has never had much to do with this part of the world. I think part of the answer why the U.S. is disliked in some circles is certainly envy and another reason not brought up before is that the U.S. is often used by local politicians as a scapegoat to blame for problems or to divert attention away from problems that are of their own making. Although this is usually fairly transparent but some of it is bound to stick with some people when its repeated enough times. You can certainly see this in several instances in Latin America today.

The name eludes me, but one Argentine academic described the Falklands as two bald men fighting over a comb. True if you discount the natural resources.

 

[Moxon]

It was Borges.

 

[Moxon]

As for Haiti, I believe it was a French colony and by rights the French should be the ones helping out more than the Americans.

The French owe Haiti plenty but you did start this thread to focus on US efforts in Haiti so lets stay with that topic for the moment. The US actually took longer then France to recognise the independence of Haiti, maintaining an economic embargo over the country for the first 60 years of its existence. Then from the 20th century on it has invaded and occupied the country for nearly 20 years, passing a law reviving the practice of conscripted labour, transferring the National Bank of Haiti to the National City Bank of New York and dissolving the legislature at gunpoint when it refused to ratify a US drafted constitution overturning the prohibition on foreign owned land (eventually passed thanks to this 'help' from the marines and a referendum in which 5% of the population participated thus turning the country into a plantation for US agribusiness interests), left power in the hands of the national guard established and trained by the US which interfered in Haitian public life repeatedly over the following decades, courted the Duvalier dictatorship, violated an OAS embargo by secretly shipping oil to the military junta which had overthrown the democratically elected leader in 1991, established and supported FRAPH a thuggish paramilitary founded to undermine the rule of the democratically elected government, 'restored democracy' by forcing the democratically elected government to adopt the neoliberal programs of its defeated opponent, and supported a coup toppling the government in 2004 among other tidbits I'm sure would be of no interest to those of the 'America: serm folk just don't seem t'perciate our help' school of thought. It seems as if someone else has been running the show Sergio, at least for the last hundred years or so, not a traditional colony though I'm sure the customary warm bond between master and servant exists.

 

[gouchobob]

The name eludes me, but one Argentine academic described the Falklands as two bald men fighting over a comb. True if you discount the natural resources.

Very good, I had not heard the comb analogy before. Of course any natural resources worth fighting over are yet to be proven to exist, although exploration is under way.

 

[gouchobob]

The French owe Haiti plenty but you did start this thread to focus on US efforts in Haiti so lets stay with that topic for the moment. The US actually took longer then France to recognise the independence of Haiti, maintaining an economic embargo over the country for the first 60 years of its existence. Then from the 20th century on it has invaded and occupied the country for nearly 20 years, passing a law reviving the practice of conscripted labour, transferring the National Bank of Haiti to the National City Bank of New York and dissolving the legislature at gunpoint when it refused to ratify a US drafted constitution overturning the prohibition on foreign owned land (eventually passed thanks to this 'help' from the marines and a referendum in which 5% of the population participated thus turning the country into a plantation for US agribusiness interests), left power in the hands of the national guard established and trained by the US which interfered in Haitian public life repeatedly over the following decades, courted the Duvalier dictatorship, violated an OAS embargo by secretly shipping oil to the military junta which had overthrown the democratically elected leader in 1991, established and supported FRAPH a thuggish paramilitary founded to undermine the rule of the democratically elected government, 'restored democracy' by forcing the democratically elected government to adopt the neoliberal programs of its defeated opponent, and supported a coup toppling the government in 2004 among other tidbits I'm sure would be of no interest to those of the 'America: serm folk just don't seem t'perciate our help' school of thought. It seems as if someone else has been running the show Sergio, at least for the last hundred years or so, not a traditional colony though I'm sure the customary warm bond between master and servant exists.

This is certainly a very slanted and one-sided view of relations between Haiti and the U.S. For a more balanced view read the following on the history between the U.S. and Haiti.

http://www.answers.com/topic/haiti-relations-with

Still don't see what this has to do with whatts happening today.

 

[brocolliandtea]

Sergio knows his country and the generosity of its people. In fact people all over the world have chipped in and donated. Meanwhile, the Haitian elite have armed guards posed to shoot anyone who threatens them. This elite wouldnt cross the street to help another Haitian.

I have to say I find this vocal group of anti americans quite despicable. I believe they must just be a minority of lazy people who are lucky enough to live off the success of the USA and rebuilt Europe. If they traded lives with a typical Argentine their same age, theyd sing a different tune. They move here to do nothing, to live like the rich Argentines do. Back home they haunted Wal-Mart, but here can lunch where the lemon chiffon-haired elite old ladies meet, no doubt bemoaning the lack of coup de etats these days.

These expats have endless hours to post on websites like this one. Its a free for all of ignorance and self delusion. They consider everything about their country evil, yet walk the broken sidewalks of Buenos Aires with its hot buses spewing clouds of black smoke, screeching like airplanes (govt. too corrupt to inspect vehicles and too corrupt to make owners repair their vehicles) and think theyre in paradise.

They gather in expat bars and are pissed by 6pm. Stumbling home, they find the maid has left. They live off foreign incomes, they live off the expat market. They love it here, they hate it there.

I consider their unpatriotic rants despicable and have no respect for Mr. and Ms. Big Bucks from abroad who think its nice to be here as long as you dont have to live like the locals do (work 2 jobs, earn peanuts, hardly be able to feed yourself, go without shoes because you never have the money, cram yourself onto super crowded buses with no ac or heat, the long drawn faces of the unhappy populatoin clinging to their handbags in terror, arrive an hour late for work because of the latest road blocks, etc., etc., scramble for coins because the presidents promise of last year was just another lie, etc . etc, drink tap water because who can afford 6 pesos for crappy juice).

Where shall we eat out tonight?

 

[SaraSara]

Broccolliandtea:

Constructive criticism is one thing, bashing is another. Many of those American bashers probably couldn't hack it back home and decided to leave. Successful people are far less likely to relocate.

Of course there are exceptions to it, namely, people married to a foreigner, or those with job-related transfers. However, they generally don't have enough spare time to write long ranting posts berating that Evil Empire, the US.