US Presidential & VP Debates

[Rickjoe]

Yes SUGAR is the place to watch the debate. http://sugarbuenosaires.com/
That bar is in Palermo Soho area, nice food and cheap beer

 

[daviddc]

Perfecto! Pretty close to where I am. Anyone know the time of the 'pregame' show? Or what time are being showing up?

 

[che]

They were expecting a messiah, but got a man instead.

Haha.. actually I think we the people expected him to do as he said;
less torture but got more
less war but got more... everywhere
less banker bailouts but got more
Stronger borders but got fast and furious
better international relations but got drones

I agree Obama thinks he is the messiah.. but disagree we the people thought we elected one.

Seems to me only a child or very naive person would expect either a democrat or republican to change the status quo. Thus, no enthusiasm this round.

After 4 years it is pretty clear Obama is just another lying puppet for the establishment. Life goes on, repub or dem, they are all together seemingly working against we the people. Obama's lofty rhetoric the big shank played out on the gold course.. fore!

 

[Napoleon]

[Obama] talked a lot of talk, did some good things, but he didn't live up to his grandiose promises. People expected a lot more, and got a lot less.

They were expecting a messiah, but got a man instead.

I thought that this was pretty amusing in 2008. He wasn't saying much of anything other than "Hope" & "Change" and I was thinking...

"He completely STOLE Bill Clinton's 'Hope' message from 1992! And he used it to beat Bill's wife."

Obama said almost nothing, but then you would talk to his disciples and they would tell you all of the things that he had said... even though he never said them. The projection was astounding.

I even met with an American expat who had worked (still does?) in the advertising world for years and she nearly exploded with energy when the subject turned to Obama. This was late November/early December and she was beaming. She started telling me that Obama was so amazing that he even designed this "O" thing:

I looked at her like she was nuts, because I didn't even know what she was talking about. Then she explained it again and I continued to look at her like she was quite possibly the most gullible person in the world... and then it dawned on her that perhaps it might not be 100% true.

I asked her if she was kidding. If she really thought that in the middle of a campaign that he had the time to waste on creating some designs to run it by his advisors... and then she realized that it was ridiculous to even believe, much less spread as gospel. And then she admitted that she had been drinking the Kool-Aid.

He was a man who had spent his first (and only) 4 years of his one 6-year term in the US Senate, campaigning for the Presidency. There has probably never been a presidential candidate less prepared than he was. And considering his preparation and the shit storm that he entered in January of 2009 after the Bush administration basically threw in the towel in the middle of 2008, his done a remarkable job.

He's made plenty of mistakes. He's had to save the banking industry. He's had to fight with a Congress that's #1 goal wasn't to help Americans, but to ensure that Barack Obama didn't win a 2nd term. He's had to add the Trillions of dollars to the National debt that the elective wars of the Bush administration have cost America, without ever having been placed in the budget... he's battered, bruised, and not nearly as attractive of a candidate as he was when he was a blank canvas.

And he is light years ahead of Mitt Romney in regards to who would make a better president.

 

[Napoleon]

Haha.. actually I think we the people expected him to do as he said;
less torture but got more

Actually, much less. But Guantanamo is still open, that's correct.

less war but got more... everywhere

Actually, much less. We're just about completely out of Iraq (which we never should have gone into in the first place) and we're winding down in Afghanistan, which we only went into because they have trillions of dollars worth of mineral reserves under their mountains. The Bush/Cheney crew used the guise of "fighting terrorism" as a reason to invade our (previous) friends "The Taliban".

Of course Cheney's company, former collegues, and his stocks (Halliburton) billed the US government hundreds of billions of dollars from no-bid contracts that saw the American population bilked in order for Cheney & friend's families to be wealthy for the next 5 to 8 generations.

less banker bailouts but got more

If the banks hadn't been bailed out, then the US would be worse off than Europe right now. Unfortunately in saving the banks, he was more of a team player at the start than a task master. This is where his inexperience showed. To paraphrase John Belushi from Animal House:

"[He] f***ed up! [He] trusted [the bank presidents]."

Then, when things had settled, the banks sent the "best lobbyists money could buy" to convince the Republican congress to layoff passing strict new banking laws. (Don't even begin to argue that Romney would be tougher on the banks.)

Stronger borders but got fast and furious

You're bringing up something that was started in one form or another under the Bush administration.

better international relations but got drones

Not a fan of drones, but they are much less expensive, both financially, and in losses of human life (both American and civilian) than land wars. I think that they set a dangerous precedent. I fear that by saving money and lives, the future is being jeopardized.

I agree Obama thinks he is the messiah.. but disagree we the people thought we elected one.

I've got a feeling that you didn't "elect" him in 2008, so you don't have to worry about being "blamed" for Obama beating McCain/Palin... PALIN... which is almost as bad as Romney/Ryan. Almost.

Seems to me only a child or very naive person would expect either a democrat or republican to change the status quo. Thus, no enthusiasm this round.

After 4 years it is pretty clear Obama is just another lying puppet for the establishment. Life goes on, repub or dem, they are all together seemingly working against we the people. Obama's lofty rhetoric the big shank played out on the gold course.. fore!

I would say that there's quite a bit of "enthusiasm", but there isn't the Evangelical Fanaticism that we saw in '08.

 

[el_expatriado]

That's great that Sugar is showing the debates. I'll be there tonight. I hope to see you all.

I'm not really sure who to vote for this election. Since I don't really like democrats or republicans I just try to figure out who will benefit me the most, individually.

As an expat, I like the idea that with Obamacare, I can go back to the USA if I get cancer or something and be treated there despite the pre-existing condition. If I got some kind of serious illness, I would much rather be in the USA with full medical coverage than trying to deal with the health system here in Argentina. Being able to jet back to the USA for medical treatment at any time is good news for expats.

On the other hand, I like the idea that Romney might cut my capital gains and dividend tax to zero. Income from cap. gains and dividends don't qualify for the expat tax exemption, so this is obviously good news for expats as well.

So there we have it... I'm undecided still. Let's see how much stuff they promise me tonight.

 

[sergio]

How can you get medical coverage under Obamacare if you don't pay for the insurance? Expats, as I understand it, will be exempted. That means you will not have the insurance option in the US.

 

[che]

Actually, much less. But Guantanamo is still open, that's correct.

Oh really? Please do tell us your source for stating your factoid. Do you know the exact amount of torture under Bush versus today? How about torture sites outside of Guantanamo? We still have sites in Belarus, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel and many other sites we use for torture b/c they are outside US jurisdiction. Your response is absurd on its face b/c you simply do not know.

Actually, much less. We're just about completely out of Iraq

Oh really? In 2006 there were 100,000 private military contractors. I am guessing you are not counting Blackwater and Xi crews left over otherwise known as mercenaries. Just because the war has been privatized I would not say it is over and I certainly disagree with your claim there is not a war in Iraq happening today being fought by private contractors. Or maybe you are of the type who believes Clinton when he says he did not have sexual relations b/c he didn't stick it in. Under Obama the troops may have been moved to Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, etc. but the war in Iraq remains on going with paid fighters there on the US dime. Under Bama we have meandered into Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Ethiopia, Mexico, Egypt, maybe a few more but I guess you do not count those as wars... incursions to you sound better?

Instead of your opinion, point me to where it is shown that we do not have over 100,000 paid fighters in Iraq today.

If the banks hadn't been bailed out, then the US would be worse off than Europe right now.

Oh really, and this is again a fact or your opinion stated as fact? Iceland looks like it survived its bank blow up without bailout. In fact, after four years Iceland is growing again. Bankruptcy works fine in true free market economies and had banks gone belly up new banks would be started by honest entrepreneurs to replace the obvious corrupt ones in place today. The idea we had to save banks so we can all live under austerity is a myth perpetrated by bureaucrats and bankers who benefit from the bailouts. Iceland manifests the idea is a false one. But please do point me to where bailing out bad investments on the public dime helps the situation. I think in fact "moral hazard" defines exactly the situation and why it does not work. But I am glad you have an opinion albeit proven incorrect.

(Don't even begin to argue that Romney would be tougher on the banks.)

I won't as I stated originally they Bama and Romney are both the same. Your opinion is they are different but frankly the facts manifest something different from all your opinions.

Not a fan of drones, but they are much less expensive, both financially, and in losses of human life (both American and civilian) than land wars.

For clarity are you adding for good measure that in your opinion wars that can be automated and maybe less expensive are somehow a positive innovation for mankind? Not sure of your point here but what I do know is Bama has personally signed off on using drones to kill people including a US citizen in Yemen who should have had the right of due process but under King Bama he was simply eliminated... your point is what?

I've got a feeling that you didn't "elect" him in 2008, so you don't have to worry about being "blamed" for Obama beating McCain/Palin... PALIN... which is almost as bad as Romney/Ryan. Almost.

And again your point is what?

I would say that there's quite a bit of "enthusiasm", but there isn't the Evangelical Fanaticism that we saw in '08.

Yes you right I did see that woman get a free bamaphone quite enthused. Anyone with a brain who is enthusiastic about either is in my opinion either naive, ignorant, or both aka - an idiot.

You seem to have a pretty grand vision of your opinions but to be clear they are just that - your opinions. You cannot back up any of your claims here so get over your self.

 

[legilber]

What channel will they be showing this on?

 

[Hop]

What channel will they be showing this on?

You can watch it on Youtube here.