Villa Soldati - Are you watching?

[K_Crimini]

There is the fact that there are people here that are very poor, not citizens, and that crime in the area has skyrocketed. I'm not saying it's acceptable, but that those who are not from here are perceived as being the problem by people who feel threatened.

No, I'm not missing the point, really. The people who live here want order. They want some kind of enforcement and the way people get the attention around here is through civil disobedience. Blocking the highway may not be productive, but it's the only recourse people have around here. The perception is that the park is going to be converted to villas and if that happens, the entire neighborhood will basically be surrounded or even converted. It's not a far stretch for the people here to believe that, regardless of whether that's the likeliest outcome or not.

The city has let these villas grow and grow and grow. If there are any zoning laws, they are not enforced. I'm not sure that the highway blockage is the source of the mass instability. Though it's not helpful, it's the only way people here have of getting the attention of outsiders on their own cause or POV.

It's despicable that ambulance drivers were attacked and not allowed through and that people died. But the problem is not simply xenophobia - it's more than that. It's poverty and the lack of government involvement that allowed these villas to become societies unto themselves, isolating the people therein more than their status as immigrants would do alone. The culture there is identifiable, people from the villa can be recognized by the way they talk or dress and though certainly the majority of them are not criminals, they are stigmatized as such when they leave.

 

[marksoc]

not citizens

This cannot be an issue. We accept everybody, that is why we are different,we are not the US or racist Spain.

The city has let these villas grow and grow and grow

Next time try no to vote Macri or any other neocon. Now you need to suffer through his administration, until he is ousted. Do you think I exxagerate? Well, with another mayor, those people would maybe have a little house built with the help of the local government (like Sabatella did in Moron).

 

[sesamosinsal]

It's despicable that ambulance drivers were attacked and not allowed through and that people died. But the problem is not simply xenophobia - it's more than that. It's poverty and the lack of government involvement that allowed these villas to become societies unto themselves, isolating the people therein more than their status as immigrants would do alone. The culture there is identifiable, people from the villa can be recognized by the way they talk or dress and though certainly the majority of them are not criminals, they are stigmatized as such when they leave.

And if it's not xenophobia, may I ask you why some might have a difficult time living in Argentina? One thing that causes poverty is the lack of employment or underemployment. If people are being attacked in the streets because they "look Bolivian" or "look Peruvian," how many of them do you think aren't getting jobs because they "look Bolivian" or "look Peruvian?"

We are in agreement that people in the villa are discriminated by the way they speak, dress, etc. However, in this particular incident -- as if people wearing Argentine flags and yelling racial and xenophobic epithets wasn't enough -- you should also realize that their "nationalities" are being used to discriminate against them as well.

These people remain in poverty because, among other things, they are Bolivian, Peruvian, or whatever. I've had taxi drivers tell me that that Bolivians, Peruvians, etc. are the source of all of Argentina's problems. I've read the comments on C5N's page on Facebook where people are saying things such as, "Bolivians are dirty! Murder 10-20 of them, and they'll all run home!" How can people who identify as being Bolivian ever be able to fully function in a society that strips away their humanity? If you're regarded as dirt instead of a human, what chances do you have at ever obtaining gainful employment or a decent education?

 

[elhombresinnombre]

The question of why expats weren't discussing this subject in greater numbers. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those whose lives are in upheaval in and around Parque Indioamericano but I've not added any comments because however the situation may seem from which ever point of view I try to look at it, I know that I'm not competent to judge. Ask me about the student riots in England and I can argue all the points of view because I've lived the backstory nearly all my life. Other people have lived the backstory here - in poverty, in anxiety and under military rule for much of it. Me? I just wouldn't know where to begin.

There is just one thing I will comment on, though. At the time of writing and according to Google News, not one single, solitary English-speaking news service has said anything about Villa Soldati. I exclude Momento24 and the Buenos Aires Herald for obvious reasons. Normally the foreign press just love to print an "It's those loco Latin Americans again" story on the slightest excuse (and usually get all the facts wrong and don't care why) yet not one of them has even attempted to explain this. And I think I can understand why.

 

[nikad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/noticias/2010/12/101210_argentina_buenos_aires_desalojo_soldati_rg.shtml

 

[elhombresinnombre]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/noticias/2010/12/101210_argentina_buenos_aires_desalojo_soldati_rg.shtml

Still not English language.

Google news now gives the Iranian news service story at http://www.presstv.ir/detail/155018.html. Which I grant is in English but not from one of the 'usual suspects' for misunderstood Latin American News.

I'm sure it will appear eventually - probably on the BBC since as you point out BBC Mundo now have it - but my point is how perplexing something like this is to people who haven't lived through the backstory.

 

[nikad]

Still not English language.

Google news now gives the Iranian news service story at http://www.presstv.ir/detail/155018.html. Which I grant is in English but not from one of the 'usual suspects' for misunderstood Latin American News.

I'm sure it will appear eventually - probably on the BBC since as you point out BBC Mundo now have it - but my point is how perplexing something like this is to people who haven't lived through the backstory.

I agree, as of now I was not able to find any news in English except for the ones you mentioned earlier, but that is written in Argentina.

 

[mini]

There is just one thing I will comment on, though. At the time of writing and according to Google News, not one single, solitary English-speaking news service has said anything about Villa Soldati. I exclude Momento24 and the Buenos Aires Herald for obvious reasons. Normally the foreign press just love to print an "It's those loco Latin Americans again" story on the slightest excuse (and usually get all the facts wrong and don't care why) yet not one of them has even attempted to explain this. And I think I can understand why.

I meant to say this yesterday as well. As well as the fact that no Argentine's I've met this week have brought it up, I was also shocked the lack of international coverage of this!

 

[gouchobob]

And if it's not xenophobia, may I ask you why some might have a difficult time living in Argentina? One thing that causes poverty is the lack of employment or underemployment. If people are being attacked in the streets because they "look Bolivian" or "look Peruvian," how many of them do you think aren't getting jobs because they "look Bolivian" or "look Peruvian?"

We are in agreement that people in the villa are discriminated by the way they speak, dress, etc. However, in this particular incident -- as if people wearing Argentine flags and yelling racial and xenophobic epithets wasn't enough -- you should also realize that their "nationalities" are being used to discriminate against them as well.

These people remain in poverty because, among other things, they are Bolivian, Peruvian, or whatever. I've had taxi drivers tell me that that Bolivians, Peruvians, etc. are the source of all of Argentina's problems. I've read the comments on C5N's page on Facebook where people are saying things such as, "Bolivians are dirty! Murder 10-20 of them, and they'll all run home!" How can people who identify as being Bolivian ever be able to fully function in a society that strips away their humanity? If you're regarded as dirt instead of a human, what chances do you have at ever obtaining gainful employment or a decent education?

Sounds like plain old racism to me is a big part of the problem. Its a local story and not that unusual for South America(which accounts for not much outside news coverage to date). Unfortunately there are similar situations happening on the continent almost on a daily basis.

Heres another situation in Chile this week. http://news.carrentals.co.uk/chile-police-to-quell-rioting-squatters-on-easter-island-34227416.html

 

[K_Crimini]

And if it's not xenophobia, may I ask you why some might have a difficult time living in Argentina?

Dude. We're in agreement, I'm pretty sure. What I said was that it's not *simply* xenophobia. There are reasons for it which I'm sure we can all agree are misguided in many instances, but I can understand *why* people feel that way.

The government policy concerning South American immigrants contributes to the way things are here. There is more going on here. That's all. And I think you should try to imagine the way things have gotten worse here over the last 30 years. One thing I'm sure you can understand is the way that crime escalates with poverty, lack of education, and drugs. The fact that the majority of people in the villa are immigrants or have darker skin makes them an easy scapegoat. I'm not saying that's fair or good or right. What I am saying is that it's easy to see how that happens among working class people even in a very diverse neighborhood.

What can be done? It's like this in Chile and in Argentina and in the US, too. Those with darker skin make an easy scapegoat for people who are pretty ignorant, but know one thing: life is getting harder and someone must be to blame.

This whole situation is making me sick. My boyfriend was told by a neighbor yesterday after two were killed, but before it was on the news, "We killed two of them." It's disgusting, terrible, and probably the killings will be blamed on the people in the park themselves. There will be no investigation, certainly, no justice. It's like tea partiers saying they want their country back because the president is Black.

I just don't see what can be done, but I think the reasons need to be understood rather than simply condemned in order for a solution of any kind to be reached.

Macri's down at the Casa Rosada today - more ineffectual policy to come while traffic will surely be blocked tonight and possibly more people will be murdered sans police intervention or arrest tonight.

(edit: spelling)