Violent protests in Chile: Will this spread to Argentina?

[Rich One]

My friend was referring to memberships in the best private clubs, the elite schools, etc.
That's where networking starts, and in Chile networking is all. Who your parents are, who are you related to, whom did your siblings and cousins marry, which school did you go to, etc.

Access was fenced-off from the start, and people outside those groups had much of a chance of being accepted into the upper class, whatever that may be.

Something similar happens in Argentina. No matter how much money people make, even nowadays membership in the Jockey Club is restricted to the privileged few. Landed gentry, for the most part.

That model is still true in Chile for the Traditional Spanish Colonial Society. The super rich from other communities formed their own clubs and high Schools namely. Club Arabe, Club Israelita, Prince of Wales Country Club. Club Croata. Believe me no circles are closed for the Croatian Family Luksic.

In Argentina many of the Super Rich Don't belong or plan to join the Jockey Club ( La Aristocracia Vacuna de la Sociedad Rural is passé) such as: Rocca, Roemmers, Eurnekian , Bulgheroni. Galperin, Constantini, Migoya (Globant). Grobocopatel, IMHO

 

[on the brink]

That model is still true in Chile for the Traditional Spanish Colonial Society. The super rich from other communities formed their own clubs and high Schools namely. Club Arabe, Club Israelita, Prince of Wales Country Club. Club Croata. Believe me no circles are closed for the Croatian Family Luksic.

In Argentina many of the Super Rich Don't belong or plan to join the Jockey Club ( La Aristocracia Vacuna de la Sociedad Rural is passé) such as: Rocca, Roemmers, Eurnekian , Bulgheroni. Galperin, Constantini, Migoya (Globant). Grobocopatel, IMHO

I disagree. They may be Super Rich, but as Nouveau Rich they still don't belong to what is considered upper crust. An Eurnekian last name does not carry the same weight as an Anchorena.

In Argentina, Super Rich is not upper crust. They were not welcomed at the Jockey Club, so they had to resort to forming their own clubs. What you call the Aristocracia Vacuna is still the aristocracy, for whatever it's worth.

By the way, many who belong to the Sociedad Rural are not in the Jockey Club, either.

 

[sergio]

The old social structure has largely broken down in Argentina but everyone recognises the traditional upper class names which tend to be Spanish or French or English. Interestingly Spanish surnames can either belong to the traditional upper class or the poor while Italian surnames invariably connote middle class. New money, especially during the Menem years, helped to break barriers. The elite private schools are no longer dominated by the children of the traditional upper class and those who come from those families will not be accepted if they can't pay the high fees. Admission to the Jockey Club is through connections, especially if you are the child of a member in which case you'll automatically be admitted. It's probably the last bastion of this group and I suspect even it has opened up somewhat. Argentina, at least for Latin America, is relatively democratic when it comes to upward mobility. The Church is a good indicator. The bishops very often come from the middle class of Italian extraction. Pope Francis is an example, as was his predecessor. By contrast, Chile remains much more controlled by a cadre of old families. This might be part of the source of the unrest there - I am just speculating. Mexico also strikes me as a highly class oriented country with some of the same families in charge for the past five hundred years with far less social mobility than in Argentina.

 

[Rich One]

"An Eurnekian last name does not carry the same weight as an Anchorena."

Absolutely true at top Charity functions the main tables are Roemmers, Bago, Rattazzi/Fiat, Constantini or other industrialists, the big donors. Few Alvear's, Alzaga, or Anchorena..!

Well the subject was the unrest in Chile.At every street demonstration there must be disturbances with the Carabineros otherwise will not be in the news. A lost effort, some leftists claim that destruction is a valid form of protest, as in most revolutions. Otherwise no one will pay attention to peaceful pot banging...!

 

[on the brink]

I fail to see your point. Tables at charities? Please, elaborate.

 

[sergio]

The angry American colonists who rebelled against colonial rule in Massachusetts used violence to express their views. The Boston Tea Party was an act of tremendous violence. Tea was an extremely valuable commodity. Tossing it into the harbour constituted a huge financial loss.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I am currently in Santiago as well, arrived October 1 and returning to BA next week. So, I have been here before, during, and unfortunately not after the protests/destruction because they still continue, although the media for the most part is not reporting them any more.

I've actually witnessed much of what Rich One is reporting on. These two articles do a good job of helping to describe both sides of the "big picture":

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/truth-chile-unequal-whats-behind-chiles-protests

https://www.lanacion.com.ar/opinion/columnistas/puntos-comun-protestas-nid2316792

President Pinera also wrote an op-ed in the New York Times, for what it is worth:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/opinion/pinera-chile.html

When I speak with Chilenos, they say the most shocking thing is that the country for all intents and purposes has a president in name only, and has no leadership. It is very sad to watch.

What about Costanera Mall area? does it makes sense to go for shopping?

 

[Rich One]

I fail to see your point. Tables at charities? Please, elaborate.

Seems pretty clear IMHO. At major charity fund raising gala events, if your table is close to the stage you are some one , if you are where you can't see the stage you don't count.

 

[Rich One]

What about Costanera Mall area? does it makes sense to go for shopping?

The Costanera Center Mall Area is fairly safe. However being next to a Subway Station crowds gather and sometimes make a sudden hit run for the Mall . The Security Guards promptly secure the 10 feet Metal Gates to keep the vandals out . The crowds are composed of a small percentage of righteous young students that want to "Eliminate the Pinochet Constitution" and a larger percentage of hooded looters that want to storm their way into Jumbo, Falabella and other high end department stores.

Well all is not bad news, some businesses had windfall profits. The Window pane replacement services, the Businesses that sell Armored plates to cover the fronts of pharmacies, banks, medical centers, supermarkets etc. Can't deliver enough.

Christmas presents seekers had a field day , all the looted merchandise from Department stores and Supermarkets is for sale on the ground by manteros fairs. At fire Sale prices, imported sheets form Falabella, Perfumes, Expensive liquor , all must go..!

 

[JeffR]

What about Costanera Mall area? does it makes sense to go for shopping?

I agree with Rich. Costanera Mall is not dangerous, but there is still the annoyance of impromptu "student" flash mobs. I am not a big shopper, but probably Alto Los Condes is a better option for a mall, and Los Condes to stay as well.