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The party of love, not hate....

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https://twitter.com/hashtag/llorapalooza?vertical=default&src=tren

:lol:
 
Matteo Renzi Italian PM is here for a visit with Macri a fellow Italian/Calabrian descent ..! Three hundred businessmen coming soon to study investments in Argentina. Renzi requested the return of Columbus statue to its site behind Casa Rosada...! where it belongs. Fxxk Chavez.

http://www.infobae.com/2016/02/16/1790413-mateo-renzi-en-el-mundo-hay-mucha-expectativa-lo-que-el-gobierno-mauricio-macri-va-hacer


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Dude, relax, dont take it personally, relax, dont fight with me but with my ideas.

This is classic K support for me. Make a point which is not particulalry well thought out (or sometimes an outright lie) and then when someone responds elegantly, do the written equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ear and going la, la, la.

I think The Cheese fought your ideas quite well, which is actually proven by your response. A discussion, debate, or argument is generally over when a party has nothing more to say. judging this response, the discussion is over.
 
For what I know, and please correct me (and prove me) if Im wrong, Todesca was under the K days a private consultant, and he used to give numbers with 10 employees or less. Indec has more than one hundred.

Really? you think that it takes till October to measure reality? Till October to get one single data? or is it because it will get worse and worse everyday until they stabilize it?

PS: did you actually watch Trump praising Macri before the election? :)

To take the last item first, this is typical Propaganda 101 - because someone who most people think is an idiot, and possibly a dangerous one at that, mention that that person had good things to say about Macri, well, here's the equation, quite a simple one, that this little piece is supposed to show: Trump = evil, Trump mentions Macri, Macri = evil. Nice and simplistic, eh? About like the other ones calling Macri a dictator because his fmaily had connections with people who may have been sympathetic to dictators of the past, all while ignoring the fact that Cristina was an unsuccessful, wannabe dictator herself.

One thing I don't think I added in my previous post was that Macri is using numbers to understand inflation, he just can't use INDEC yet to help him undersand what is going on and publishing meaningless numbers as official data was the trademark of the previous administration. The article that I read about this mentioned who he was using, but I don't remember specifically. As far as publishing these numbers as official numbers, that doesn't make sense because the process used has not been sanctioned by the government in terms of communicating such information to the public via the government, but it has uses for Macri as far as understanding where the problem is, which allows him to go about working on fixing things while he straightens out the reporting problem Cristina caused. Of course, one has to accept that there was a problem to begin with and the fact that you don't think there was a problem says quite a lot about your ideas and how you see the world.

It's not very difficult to find sites on the web that publish this information. A Google search with the words "inflacion anual argentina" does the job much better than anything Cristina published in the last 4-5 years of her reign through INDEC, at least, maybe longer. And Macri doesn't seem to be calling the people or entities who publish this extra-governmental information "traitors" like Cristina did.

You don't need very many people to create a bunch of lies. 10 employees? I don't know where you got your numbers, but I seem to remember Macri causing more than that number to be fired from INDEC; maybe I'm remembering wrongly. But yeah, I believe that Cristina could have falsified her INDEC data with just 10 people. So?

As far as it taking up to October to re-organize INDEC, re-develop procedures that were thrown out in the trash bin by Cristina, as well as data-collecting points and such, yeah, it seems reasonable to me. But your single question asking if it will take that long to collect a single data point shows your ignorance. Ignorance is OK as long as people are willing to recognize their ignorance and do something about it, but you have displayed a singular lack of desire to move beyond "Cristina good, Macri bad."

And you seem to continue to not metnion that Macri himself is not prevaricating on the issue of inflation. Even though it probably hurts him politically with many people, he has stated quite publicly that the inflation problem won't go away in less than 2-3 years. Bette than saying there is no problem, which is about all we heard from the previous administration.

In fact, this particular question reminds me of the ignorance I routinely go through with clients related to developing software. Client says "I want a program that holds all my parts and invoices in a database, allows me to assign tariff numbers to the parts so when the invoices go out for shipment overseas I can prepare shipping manifests and other items to present to Customs and not be fined a million dollars for classifying something wrong." I tell the guy or gal that this isn't enough information to prepare a quote and a development plan to estimate time or money. The client then shows me a couple of hand-written notebooks where his classifications guys have been doing all this work by hand. I insist this still isn't enough information and request a number of meetings with himself and those who are involved in the process. He grudgingly agrees and a month later I present him with a cost estimate and schedule and he looks at me incredulously and says "a year and a half and $200K? Are you out of your mind? My 20 guys writing in their notebooks just don't do that much work!" Of course, he doesn't have the skills to recognize that the human mind can readily grasp and process information which has to be written out in painstakingly detailed instructions to a computer to simply automate the most onerous of those tasks. He also doesn't take into account that he will be able to manage that entire classification department with one or two guys after I'm done, even though I've put a ROI that points to that in my documentation.

In fact, many of the clients I have dealt with over the years have pictures of a guy bashing his computer with a sledge hammer somewhere in their office or cubicle. It shows what world they are in when it comes to understanding computers and what they can do for you when approached correctly.

One data point, you say. And it simply can't take that much, right? Well, sorry, but you are not talking about a couple of high-level people under Cristina getting together and writing things out on napkins and winging it. Right off the bat, to get real numbers and real trends you cannot simply look at the current month or two to figure out what today looks like compared to anything else. You need real data feeds. You need to set procedures to gather the real data to send to those you will collect from to indicate which data they need to send, where it comes from and so on. You need to have models that show how the data is stored, organized and analyzed. You need to write algorithms that can take that data and give meaningful results. You have to train people to implement these items, and not just 10 guys sitting in the dark making things up. These are just things I can think of from my own work, in less than a minute, that I know they will have to do if all procedures and such from a decade or so ago have been destroyed.

And in order to calculate inflation and its rate over time, not to mention how that affects your current economy and plans, you actually need time to accumulate numbers when starting from scratch. This may mean that you wait for data to accumulate and/or you go back in time and look through previous data to see what the reality was. Problem with that is, to go back in time in this case you can't depend on anything published by liars and that means going back to the sources, which means asking businesses to stop what they are doing and go back through their history and report again on what they had done - oh yeah, with the new data gathering procedures that haven't been determined yet. Not to mention the real impact in time and labor and cost for them to do such a thing.

Give Macri some room to work so we don't have to depend on back-of-the-napkin calculations and lies any more. If he turns out to be an actual dictator and/or a liar, I will be right along with you in calling him out. But until then, two months isn't enough time to gather data on how his next 3 years and 10 months will go, unless your mind is already made up and not interested in looking at reality.

Dude, relax, dont take it personally, relax, dont fight with me but with my ideas.

I do get frustrated when people continue to spout baseless propaganda in the face of direct evidence to the contrary. Your statement which I last quoted here is a bit strange to me though, as I was very specifically "fighting" your ideas, ideas which seem to be of the simplistic socialistic/fascist "If we can just band together and hold hands everyone will be taken care of! This is the way things should be, the way God meant things to be, and there are a myriad of reasons why I'm right, why can't you see that?" and simply don't seem to be based on reality or backed up by anything but propaganda.

I have had a lot of experience in a wide variety of businesses (over the last 35 years being in the workforce and involved around the world for the last 18 or so), including running and managing businesses of others, as well as my own. I am widely read on subjects from economics, business and governmental theory (not to mention other, less esoteric things like science and engineering). I am nowhere near an expert on probably any of that, though I think I'm a decent generalist. I've seen others on this forum explain the intricacies of economics much better than I can, but at least my ideas are based on real-world knowledge and experience and don't fly wild in the face of reality.

My personal experience in the work force and struggling to make a buck and advance my own fortunes and ideas makes me completely frustrated with the whole paternalistic view of government "taking care of" its citizenry. I see this paternalistic view, along with central planning, as a false hope, much like most religions (and sorry if I offend anyone), which mostly seems to me to benefit those in power and does the opposite to the general citizenry in its majority. I try to base my ideas on reality and when I see vague comments about how things should be that are so wildly Utopian, how people like Cristina are doing good for everyone, I do indeed get upset because I've seen how the continuing mismanagement of government everywhere, but particularly here, keeps people in misery when it's so unnecessary, at least not in the volumes that exist.

While I might believe in the absence of state-run government as the best thing for humanity in the long run, I'm not naive (or ignorant) enough to think that the world is ready for something like that. I do strive to work towards lessening the influence of government in the lives of people on an everyday basis. One step at a time.

Your ideas, as loose and unfounded as they are, are dangerous to freedom and prosperity in general. Of course I'm fighting them. I'm not fighting you - I don't even know you personally. I am, however, pointing out where you, as a person, seem to be missing the point completely, based on your ideas and apparent inability to analyze reality successfully and I seek to lessen the influence of such ideas by pointing out their fallacies. Of course, it's easy to do on the forum as most people here agree with much of what I say, at least as far as the government here goes and how it has "helped" its citizenry over the last twelve years.

You are free to disagree with me, even call my ideas dangerous. They surely are dangerous to people who follow the precepts you seem to follow. I never take your propaganda-spouting personally, but do often feel the need to respond, sometimes with frustration and maybe even a hint of anger and maybe even ridicule, even if in the long run it will do no good. At the very least it helps keep me sharp :)
 
To take the last item first, this is typical Propaganda 101 - because someone who most people think is an idiot, and possibly a dangerous one at that, mention that that person had good things to say about Macri, well, here's the equation, quite a simple one, that this little piece is supposed to show: Trump = evil, Trump mentions Macri, Macri = evil. Nice and simplistic, eh? About like the other ones calling Macri a dictator because his fmaily had connections with people who may have been sympathetic to dictators of the past, all while ignoring the fact that Cristina was an unsuccessful, wannabe dictator herself.

One thing I don't think I added in my previous post was that Macri is using numbers to understand inflation, he just can't use INDEC yet to help him undersand what is going on and publishing meaningless numbers as official data was the trademark of the previous administration. The article that I read about this mentioned who he was using, but I don't remember specifically. As far as publishing these numbers as official numbers, that doesn't make sense because the process used has not been sanctioned by the government in terms of communicating such information to the public via the government, but it has uses for Macri as far as understanding where the problem is, which allows him to go about working on fixing things while he straightens out the reporting problem Cristina caused. Of course, one has to accept that there was a problem to begin with and the fact that you don't think there was a problem says quite a lot about your ideas and how you see the world.

It's not very difficult to find sites on the web that publish this information. A Google search with the words "inflacion anual argentina" does the job much better than anything Cristina published in the last 4-5 years of her reign through INDEC, at least, maybe longer. And Macri doesn't seem to be calling the people or entities who publish this extra-governmental information "traitors" like Cristina did.

You don't need very many people to create a bunch of lies. 10 employees? I don't know where you got your numbers, but I seem to remember Macri causing more than that number to be fired from INDEC; maybe I'm remembering wrongly. But yeah, I believe that Cristina could have falsified her INDEC data with just 10 people. So?

As far as it taking up to October to re-organize INDEC, re-develop procedures that were thrown out in the trash bin by Cristina, as well as data-collecting points and such, yeah, it seems reasonable to me. But your single question asking if it will take that long to collect a single data point shows your ignorance. Ignorance is OK as long as people are willing to recognize their ignorance and do something about it, but you have displayed a singular lack of desire to move beyond "Cristina good, Macri bad."

And you seem to continue to not metnion that Macri himself is not prevaricating on the issue of inflation. Even though it probably hurts him politically with many people, he has stated quite publicly that the inflation problem won't go away in less than 2-3 years. Bette than saying there is no problem, which is about all we heard from the previous administration.

In fact, this particular question reminds me of the ignorance I routinely go through with clients related to developing software. Client says "I want a program that holds all my parts and invoices in a database, allows me to assign tariff numbers to the parts so when the invoices go out for shipment overseas I can prepare shipping manifests and other items to present to Customs and not be fined a million dollars for classifying something wrong." I tell the guy or gal that this isn't enough information to prepare a quote and a development plan to estimate time or money. The client then shows me a couple of hand-written notebooks where his classifications guys have been doing all this work by hand. I insist this still isn't enough information and request a number of meetings with himself and those who are involved in the process. He grudgingly agrees and a month later I present him with a cost estimate and schedule and he looks at me incredulously and says "a year and a half and $200K? Are you out of your mind? My 20 guys writing in their notebooks just don't do that much work!" Of course, he doesn't have the skills to recognize that the human mind can readily grasp and process information which has to be written out in painstakingly detailed instructions to a computer to simply automate the most onerous of those tasks. He also doesn't take into account that he will be able to manage that entire classification department with one or two guys after I'm done, even though I've put a ROI that points to that in my documentation.

In fact, many of the clients I have dealt with over the years have pictures of a guy bashing his computer with a sledge hammer somewhere in their office or cubicle. It shows what world they are in when it comes to understanding computers and what they can do for you when approached correctly.

One data point, you say. And it simply can't take that much, right? Well, sorry, but you are not talking about a couple of high-level people under Cristina getting together and writing things out on napkins and winging it. Right off the bat, to get real numbers and real trends you cannot simply look at the current month or two to figure out what today looks like compared to anything else. You need real data feeds. You need to set procedures to gather the real data to send to those you will collect from to indicate which data they need to send, where it comes from and so on. You need to have models that show how the data is stored, organized and analyzed. You need to write algorithms that can take that data and give meaningful results. You have to train people to implement these items, and not just 10 guys sitting in the dark making things up. These are just things I can think of from my own work, in less than a minute, that I know they will have to do if all procedures and such from a decade or so ago have been destroyed.

And in order to calculate inflation and its rate over time, not to mention how that affects your current economy and plans, you actually need time to accumulate numbers when starting from scratch. This may mean that you wait for data to accumulate and/or you go back in time and look through previous data to see what the reality was. Problem with that is, to go back in time in this case you can't depend on anything published by liars and that means going back to the sources, which means asking businesses to stop what they are doing and go back through their history and report again on what they had done - oh yeah, with the new data gathering procedures that haven't been determined yet. Not to mention the real impact in time and labor and cost for them to do such a thing.

Give Macri some room to work so we don't have to depend on back-of-the-napkin calculations and lies any more. If he turns out to be an actual dictator and/or a liar, I will be right along with you in calling him out. But until then, two months isn't enough time to gather data on how his next 3 years and 10 months will go, unless your mind is already made up and not interested in looking at reality.



I do get frustrated when people continue to spout baseless propaganda in the face of direct evidence to the contrary. Your statement which I last quoted here is a bit strange to me though, as I was very specifically "fighting" your ideas, ideas which seem to be of the simplistic socialistic/fascist "If we can just band together and hold hands everyone will be taken care of! This is the way things should be, the way God meant things to be, and there are a myriad of reasons why I'm right, why can't you see that?" and simply don't seem to be based on reality or backed up by anything but propaganda.

I have had a lot of experience in a wide variety of businesses (over the last 35 years being in the workforce and involved around the world for the last 18 or so), including running and managing businesses of others, as well as my own. I am widely read on subjects from economics, business and governmental theory (not to mention other, less esoteric things like science and engineering). I am nowhere near an expert on probably any of that, though I think I'm a decent generalist. I've seen others on this forum explain the intricacies of economics much better than I can, but at least my ideas are based on real-world knowledge and experience and don't fly wild in the face of reality.

My personal experience in the work force and struggling to make a buck and advance my own fortunes and ideas makes me completely frustrated with the whole paternalistic view of government "taking care of" its citizenry. I see this paternalistic view, along with central planning, as a false hope, much like most religions (and sorry if I offend anyone), which mostly seems to me to benefit those in power and does the opposite to the general citizenry in its majority. I try to base my ideas on reality and when I see vague comments about how things should be that are so wildly Utopian, how people like Cristina are doing good for everyone, I do indeed get upset because I've seen how the continuing mismanagement of government everywhere, but particularly here, keeps people in misery when it's so unnecessary, at least not in the volumes that exist.

While I might believe in the absence of state-run government as the best thing for humanity in the long run, I'm not naive (or ignorant) enough to think that the world is ready for something like that. I do strive to work towards lessening the influence of government in the lives of people on an everyday basis. One step at a time.

Your ideas, as loose and unfounded as they are, are dangerous to freedom and prosperity in general. Of course I'm fighting them. I'm not fighting you - I don't even know you personally. I am, however, pointing out where you, as a person, seem to be missing the point completely, based on your ideas and apparent inability to analyze reality successfully and I seek to lessen the influence of such ideas by pointing out their fallacies. Of course, it's easy to do on the forum as most people here agree with much of what I say, at least as far as the government here goes and how it has "helped" its citizenry over the last twelve years.

You are free to disagree with me, even call my ideas dangerous. They surely are dangerous to people who follow the precepts you seem to follow. I never take your propaganda-spouting personally, but do often feel the need to respond, sometimes with frustration and maybe even a hint of anger and maybe even ridicule, even if in the long run it will do no good. At the very least it helps keep me sharp :)

ElQueso, you never cease to brighten my day with your erudite posts/comments. As always, many thanks.
 
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