Western Union money transfer

[Edu R]

Everyone that's saying "just change your password after" is mistaken about how the authorization process works. Not only does WU never get your password, it wouldn't matter if you did change it. WU receives a cryptographic token that essentially lets them access your account without the password and changing the password doesn't revoke the token. The token itself can have a limited number of uses (in this case it's very likely a single-use token), but that's established at the time of creation and WU could easily request a multiple-use token and you'd never find out.

It's all moot, of course, because WU isn't looking to steal your funds (Wells Fargo, maybe), but of course it doesn't mean the implementation of the token system can't have a flaw and be abused by internal or external bad actors.

Edit: the point is, stop worrying about it, there's nothing you can do and most likely everything will be fine (except when it isn't).

 

[Edu R]

What information are you withholding exactly? You are receiving money by WU. AFIP knows about it. Then they appear on your account in Banco Nacion. AFIP knows about it.

AFIP only knows the totals in your account, they don't actually have access to your transactions. By the same token, banks cannot legally require your tax documents (although they often heavily imply they can). That said, banks must (and do) report any transactions they deem suspicious, with suspicious being an intentionally vague term, so if you're bringing in large amounts of money the will very likely furnish AFIP with a report that contains the transaction amounts and the payee (ie: Western Union), but that doesn't mean AFIP knows what the foreign account was.

I don't know what sort of reporting Western Union does, very likely nothing automatic but will probably answer requests of information from AFIP if they ask.

Financial information is extremely segmented, people overestimate how much is shared. If AFIP wants to know, they will likely ask you first, it's easier. The downside of doing stuff via the banks is a) the SAR reporting, and b) the balance reporting.

 

[lunar]

Not only does WU never get your password, it wouldn't matter if you did change it. WU receives a cryptographic token that essentially lets them access your account without the password and changing the password doesn't revoke the token.

Edu R is correct. Most likely you enter your user name and password on the Schwab site and WU never gets them.

OAuth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lunar]

AFIP only knows the totals in your account, they don't actually have access to your transactions.

I can see my debit card transactions on the AFIP site.

 

[Edu R]

I can see my debit card transactions on the AFIP site.

On what section? Not saying you aren't right, I'm just curious if it's something you might have authorized specifically. I've never seen individual transactions in AFIP except for stuff that is specifically informed by banks or credit cards like transactions in foreign currencies, where that needs authorization by the central bank.

 

[Quilombo]

On what section? Not saying you aren't right, I'm just curious if it's something you might have authorized specifically. I've never seen individual transactions in AFIP except for stuff that is specifically informed by banks or credit cards like transactions in foreign currencies, where that needs authorization by the central bank.

Login ---> Nuestra Parte ---> Pick a year (i.e. 2021) ---> You'll see a list of options such as Comprobantes electrónicos emitidos y recibidos (I'm a monotributista and bill my clients via the AFIP portal), Consumos con tarjeta de crédito and/or Consumos con tarjeta de débito clicking on each will show the total amount you've spent via debit/credit (I don't believe this is accurate, it's tens of thousands of pesos less than I've spent, pero bueno) not individual transactions.

 

[sneakrnet]

Login ---> Nuestra Parte ---> Pick a year (i.e. 2021) ---> You'll see a list of options such as Comprobantes electrónicos emitidos y recibidos (I'm a monotributista and bill my clients via the AFIP portal), Consumos con tarjeta de crédito and/or Consumos con tarjeta de débito clicking on each will show the total amount you've spent via debit/credit (I don't believe this is accurate, it's tens of thousands of pesos less than I've spent, pero bueno) not individual transactions.

Thank you for that information. I had looked at that (and everything else on the AFIP site I could understand) earlier in the evening for my wife's AFIP account (after reading that there were debit card transactions on the AFIP site).

There is very little information there. The numbers seem extremely low for a whole year. There's no debit card information, but I made the debit card transfers from my US bank account (I need to get a clave fiscal for my CUIL so I can see my side of things). But there's nothing in her AFIP information that shows the amounts that I transferred to her Argentine bank account. Not that I could find, anyway. And not in the area you mention.

(In any case, we're well under the limits for all the different impuestos, so I'm not worried about them knocking at my door in the middle of the night. But it's always interesting to know what they know. Don't you think?)

 

[steveinbsas]

Still don't care.. never gonna do it. I have 0 problem with going to western union in person and then the bank. Exercise is good for you lol

If I understand the context of this post correctly, you are never going to give WU your US bank username and password if they ask for it (in order to facilitate making the transfers if you are sending money to yourself). Even if they haven't or don't ever ask for them, what does that have to do with picking up the funds in person in Argentina.

If like me (for my first two transfers), you have someone paying for the transfers in person at a Western Union agency in the US, there is no need for either of you to give WU your US bank information, and, if you are picking up the funds in person, there is no need to give WU your Argentine bank information.

When you picked up the funds at a WU agency in Argentina, were you asked for any information about the source of the money you received or what you did for a living? I know you have a student visa, but I wonder if telling them that would suffice.

If you sent the money to yourself from your US bank (even with a cash pick up in Argentina), were you notified, as the sender, that the recipient is required to complete an online form at some point (perhaps before the third or fourth transfer)? If so, have you done it? If not, please let us know if and when WU starts blocking your future transfers.

 

[dsp27]

Everyone that's saying "just change your password after" is mistaken about how the authorization process works. Not only does WU never get your password, it wouldn't matter if you did change it. WU receives a cryptographic token that essentially lets them access your account without the password and changing the password doesn't revoke the token. The token itself can have a limited number of uses (in this case it's very likely a single-use token), but that's established at the time of creation and WU could easily request a multiple-use token and you'd never find out.

It's all moot, of course, because WU isn't looking to steal your funds (Wells Fargo, maybe), but of course it doesn't mean the implementation of the token system can't have a flaw and be abused by internal or external bad actors.

Edit: the point is, stop worrying about it, there's nothing you can do and most likely everything will be fine (except when it isn't).

I only suggested changing your password for those that are paranoid. I am not sure you are correct about the cryptographic token in perpetuity. If you access your Schwab account security settings you will see who has access to "login" and I can see Intuit that is mint.com but not WU. I believe it's a one-time authorization to just confirm you are the owner of the account, that's it. They don't need to run it again.

 

[SecretShopper]

If I understand the context of this post correctly, you are never going to give WU your US bank username and password if they ask for it (in order to facilitate making the transfers if you are sending money to yourself). Even if they haven't or don't ever ask for them, what does that have to do with picking up the funds in person in Argentina.

If like me (for my first two transfers), you have someone paying for the transfers in person at a Western Union agency in the US, there is no need for either of you to give WU your US bank information, and, if you are picking up the funds in person, there is no need to give WU your Argentine bank information.

When you picked up the funds at a WU agency in Argentina, were you asked for any information about the source of the money you received or what you did for a living? I know you have a student visa, but I wonder if telling them that would suffice.

If you sent the money to yourself from your US bank (even with a cash pick up in Argentina), were you notified, as the sender, that the recipient is required to complete an online form at some point (perhaps before the third or fourth transfer)? If so, have you done it? If not, please let us know if and when WU starts blocking your future transfers.

You may have read that wrong and out of context. I'll rephrase: since I don't have an issue with picking up money in person at WU, I will never do a transfer to my bank which requires giving up my username and password.