What'$ Happening In Bueno$ Aire$ ?

[Johnny]

So you think submitting a proposal for overhauling the way judges, prosecutors and police investigators are hired, in order to make it impossible to fill those roles with political appointees is a political impossibility? or is it that the current status quo is simply too convenient for him and the political class that he represents?

Here is a sample of the law created in Brazil. Proposing something similar in Argebtina is too much to ask?

"

"Art. 37. The direct federal public administration , in any of the Union's powers , the Federal District and the Municipalities shall obey the principles of legality, impersonality, morality, publicity and also the following:

1 - The public offices are accessible to all Brazilians, as long as all the requirements established by law are met.
2 - investiture in a public office or position depends on prior approval in a public competitive examination of tests or of tests and titles

How hard or politically outrageous would be to propose a similar law in Argentina?
Paragraph 1. The appointment to public office requires prior approval by tender of evidence or tests and titles .

Good question that.

I doubt there will be any significant changes in Argentina, with or without Macri. Corruption is endemic and shot through all government institutions. Squabbling for the sake of squabbling will continue. Personal agendas and vendettas will be the priority. Its a dog eat dog country, but then that describes many countries these days. Pick your poison.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Camberiu:
You ask" Who would oppose that in Argentina? My answer: Most of the population.Because this is still a country of the "no te metas" "Don't get involved".Most Argentines have little or no desire to help their country change.They want it to be done for them."Todo servido"
Johnny is point on.this is still the country of the "huertita"---".My own little garden". and stop counting. A number of the younger under 35s are changing but it will be a long haul,I'm afraid.

 

[mmoon]

I'm keeping the faith...
Otherwise, why be here? (I'm assuming pretty much everyone on this forum has citizenship somewhere else and is not fleeing the law or persecution.)
Price ups and downs are and have long been a reality of life in Argentina. Nothing surprising here!

 

[camberiu]

Camberiu:
You ask" Who would oppose that in Argentina? My answer: Most of the population.

So you think most of the population would object a law that would give any Argentine, from any province, a fair shot at a job being a judge or prosecutor, without requiring political connections or a powerful political sponsor? A law that would seriously limit cronyism, give the general public that lacks political connections access to jobs that were always beyond their reach and would, in the long term, completely revolutionize the Argentine judiciary? Gee, and I am the "negative one".

I think most Argentines would find this law a no-brainer. All Macri would need to do is start anti-cronyism campaign and submit the law to Congress. I think the public opinion would rally behind him. But he will never do it, because such changes would harm the oligarchs he represents.
But instead of seeing that, people come up with weird excuses, to justify his lack of will to bring change.

 

[thorsten]

camberiu, have you ever lived here?

 

[camberiu]

camberiu, have you ever lived here?

In fact I have. 14 continuous months, plus my now frequent work visits.
I think you are underestimating the Argentines, if you think they would not support such changes. This would be a very non-controvertial reform.

 

[thorsten]

As non-controversial as getting rid of some noquis who just waste public funds for doing nothing?

 

[camberiu]

As non-controversial as getting rid of some noquis who just waste public funds for doing nothing?

You don't have to be that radical and fire the existing employees. Make it so that the new rule simply applies to the new hires moving forward, like Brazil did in 1988. Sure, it took a while for the old politically connected guard to retire and be replaced by the new generation, but it is happening right now.
As I said, that is a long term play with high impact but that should not be that controversial.

 

[ElQueso]

When one talks about a policy being radical related to getting rid of people who have jobs getting paid for doing nothing, you should realize that that is part of the problem.

While Argentinos as a population may support some kind of law related to how to hire government employees, in general, the reality is quite a bit different. Macri, although president, is not a king and doesn't have nearly as much support for making decrees as Cristina apparently enjoyed during her tenure. Between the congress (where he's at a disadvantage), the unions (where he's at a disadvantage) and some sectors of the judiciary and even the bureaucracy, he can't wave a magic wand and make everything suddenly "honest".

People can look at what's happening with the previous administration (as far as prosecuting them) and say Macri and his administration is just getting vengeance and trying to solidify his power (as Cristina and her henchmen and family claim). Or, people can look at what's happening and say "hmmm, maybe Macri and his administration are working to reduce corruption and are starting with the tip of the iceberg that was so prominent" I.e., the "low-hanging fruit". I wouldn't even say it has to stop with the previous administration, et al. Maybe he intends to perform other reforms as well. But Macri has an awful lot to do thanks to the condition of the country and must pick his battles carefully because he doesn't have the power base that Cristina had.

With the system of patronage that exists here, supported by so many, it will be one of the most difficult things to do to pass something like what you are talking about, at this point. Hell, it doesn't even make sense to pass such a law until there are enough people in place to be able to enforce something like this - why pass something that the greater portion of the bureaucracy and organs of state that he can't control will simply ignore? There are other ways of working to remove corruption than passing laws that eventually begin to get traction at some point in the future. Just because Brasil did it one way doesn't mean that's the only way to do it in Argentina.

Maybe Macri has a plan, like he says. Maybe not - but saying at this point that Macri is just like other SA politicians seems to me to be jumping the gun by quite a bit, given what he's been accomplishing in the first 5 months of his administration.

And I must say, living here for 14 months and visiting on occasion doesn't necessarily clue one into how things are here at the grass roots level. I have had reasons, which I will not go into, over the last few years to see some of the behind-the-scenes kind of stuff that goes on and it's naive to assume that even what people say is what they actually believe, at the core of their being. It took me 7+ years living here to get into things to such a degree, our of the expat community and in the parts of things here that are truly Argentine.

 

[Noesdeayer]

El Queso:
Very true words.I am going into my 38 year in Argentina and Latin America.Something like Camberiu proposes could be considered as acceptable by a majority of Argentines but only AFTER a few years of being able to see how free market economic policies have created more employment,a believable justice system and other benefits.They would also have to get off their behinds and actually participate in rebuiding their own country.I am not losing faith but you have to be realistic in these matters.I also totally disagree with Camberiu concerning Macri.I believe that he is sincerely dedicated to promoting change.He knows the Argentine personality makeup and adjusts his timing accordingly.
I participate in a Leadrship meet up group in Spanish where I am the only non-Argentine.We are gong to discuss changing paradigms next week which should be very interesting.