What'$ Happening In Bueno$ Aire$ ?

El Queso:
Very true words.I am going into my 38 year in Argentina and Latin America.Something like Camberiu proposes could be considered as acceptable by a majority of Argentines but only AFTER a few years of being able to see how free market economic policies have created more employment,a believable justice system and other benefits.

We did it in 1988, long before any benefits from a free market economy was apparent. Up to that point, our government hiring rules and processes were very similar to what we see in Argentina today. Nepotism, political patronage and clientelism were rampant in the government apparatus. Passing a law that required that all government hiring to be made via public and impartial competitive exams was not controversial. It was not a hard fought battle. It is a common sense issue for most of the population. The idea that the same could not be done in Argentina due to some "cultural resistance" towards fairness in government hiring is in my view, to insult and underestimate Argentines. It is to grasp at straws in order to find any possible excuse for Macri's inaction. It is denial. The reason I see such changes not being proposed is not because society would resist (it would not), but because the existing political patronage system in place benefits all players, including Macri.
 
http://www.perfil.com/mobile/?nota=/contenidos

Plata dulce (movie):
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plata_dulce

Plata dulce and Bicleta financiera:
http://historiaybiografias.com/economia76/


What can fail with the master plan of the dream team?
 
Camberiu:
Please,nobody is insulting or underestimating anyone by telling something the way it really is.Argentines have come to be a real "show me" people something like the people from Missouri,U.S.A. because they have been hoodwinked so many times in the past.They themselves will tell you that.I speak with them all the time about such things and I have yet to be told that they feel insulted. or belittled..
Brazil is indeed not Argentina and.what Brazilians were able to do in 1988 has little bearing on whether Argentines should be able to do immediately or not.They have a different political history and cultural makeup.For that matter the Chileans have also been able to pass many practical laws and have developed a more credible justice system than Argentina and they speak the same language.
It is NOT Macri's inaction or denial but more realistic timing.You ,of course,are free to see whatever you like.
 
Wowee! It's been a busy weekend here. Where do we start?

Than you must agree that Macri is not an agent of transformational change, no? By definition, a "society not ready to accept fundamental reforms" can't elect the harbinger of such reforms.

I wasn't even discussing that broad an angle. To continue the trend of own-fart-smelling self-quoting, there's a LOT of space between the various descriptions you've pinned to Macri, including 'like any other SA politician', enabler of the business oligarchy, and most recently, hack - and 'agent of transformational change', whatever that even means.

What's wrong with competent steward of the economy, for example? Again, in the first months of his presidency FFS.

And the crisis of 2001 was not that event, in your view?

Perhaps it might have been, but that's neither here nor there. Macri wasn't elected in 2001, it's 2016 now. A lot of water - including some relatively good years - have passed under that bridge.

The article you just linked to refers to an ongoing crisis; methinks comparing it to 15 years ago is a leettle bit of a stretch.

So you think most of the population would object a law that would give any Argentine, from any province, a fair shot at a job being a judge or prosecutor, without requiring political connections or a powerful political sponsor? A law that would seriously limit cronyism, give the general public that lacks political connections access to jobs that were always beyond their reach and would, in the long term, completely revolutionize the Argentine judiciary? Gee, and I am the "negative one".

I think most Argentines would find this law a no-brainer. All Macri would need to do is start anti-cronyism campaign and submit the law to Congress. I think the public opinion would rally behind him. But he will never do it, because such changes would harm the oligarchs he represents.
But instead of seeing that, people come up with weird excuses, to justify his lack of will to bring change.

Let's agree for argument's sake that such a project both is a good idea and doable. That he has not undertaken this particular project automatically means everything you're saying about him? Has he not had his hands rather full?

It rather seems that you have preconceived notions regarding the man, which you are now seeking to justify. And as I said, perhaps time will show you to have been right. But for now it looks like you're projecting stuff that's not there.

You don't have to be that radical and fire the existing employees. Make it so that the new rule simply applies to the new hires moving forward, like Brazil did in 1988. Sure, it took a while for the old politically connected guard to retire and be replaced by the new generation, but it is happening right now.
As I said, that is a long term play with high impact but that should not be that controversial.

And:

Something like the beginnings of a discussion about fundamental reforms, even if it takes years to implement. A draft of a roadmap for change. Or is even that too much to ask for?

See my last comment.

When one talks about a policy being radical related to getting rid of people who have jobs getting paid for doing nothing, you should realize that that is part of the problem.

While Argentinos as a population may support some kind of law related to how to hire government employees, in general, the reality is quite a bit different. Macri, although president, is not a king and doesn't have nearly as much support for making decrees as Cristina apparently enjoyed during her tenure. Between the congress (where he's at a disadvantage), the unions (where he's at a disadvantage) and some sectors of the judiciary and even the bureaucracy, he can't wave a magic wand and make everything suddenly "honest".

People can look at what's happening with the previous administration (as far as prosecuting them) and say Macri and his administration is just getting vengeance and trying to solidify his power (as Cristina and her henchmen and family claim). Or, people can look at what's happening and say "hmmm, maybe Macri and his administration are working to reduce corruption and are starting with the tip of the iceberg that was so prominent" I.e., the "low-hanging fruit". I wouldn't even say it has to stop with the previous administration, et al. Maybe he intends to perform other reforms as well. But Macri has an awful lot to do thanks to the condition of the country and must pick his battles carefully because he doesn't have the power base that Cristina had.

With the system of patronage that exists here, supported by so many, it will be one of the most difficult things to do to pass something like what you are talking about, at this point. Hell, it doesn't even make sense to pass such a law until there are enough people in place to be able to enforce something like this - why pass something that the greater portion of the bureaucracy and organs of state that he can't control will simply ignore? There are other ways of working to remove corruption than passing laws that eventually begin to get traction at some point in the future. Just because Brasil did it one way doesn't mean that's the only way to do it in Argentina.

Maybe Macri has a plan, like he says. Maybe not - but saying at this point that Macri is just like other SA politicians seems to me to be jumping the gun by quite a bit, given what he's been accomplishing in the first 5 months of his administration.

And I must say, living here for 14 months and visiting on occasion doesn't necessarily clue one into how things are here at the grass roots level. I have had reasons, which I will not go into, over the last few years to see some of the behind-the-scenes kind of stuff that goes on and it's naive to assume that even what people say is what they actually believe, at the core of their being. It took me 7+ years living here to get into things to such a degree, our of the expat community and in the parts of things here that are truly Argentine.

Hit a bunch of nails on the head. As usual.

I know very little about Brazilian politics beyond what is reported in the foreign press, but have not heard of key elements resembling the situation here. I have not read, for instance, of Temer having to deal with a Congress that is largely if not overwhelmingly loyal to Dilma, you talk without end of Brazil's judiciary being independent where here we have Justicia Legitima and Gils Carbo, and where CFK can hurl shit against the judge investigating her with impunity. I have not read of huge sectors of Brazilian society acting as if Dilma is still president. Etc.

In Brazil, judging by what you've been writing it appears a big part of the reforms you're discussing are a fait accompli. Over here, the man tries to make a recess appointment of judges with impeccable credentials and no bias at all, and it becomes a BFD.

Again: Maybe Macri will turn out to have been an asshole the likes of which this country has never seen. But to date, there's just not been any suggestion of that. He's been working pretty much nonstop, and getting a lot of things right. All while the erstwhile holders of power are watching some of the landmines they planted while in power go off, and busily helping with new ones, like the ley antidespidos. And gnashing their teeth at the ones that haven't, like the dollar futures affair that got defused pretty deftly.

To point at a given initiative, even a good one, and give the man grief for not having implemented it - yet - a huge 'yet', given the makeup of Congress in particular and the judicial/political environment in general, and the amount of stuff he has on his plate - is just nuts.
 
Let's agree for argument's sake that such a project both is a good idea and doable. That he has not undertaken this particular project automatically means everything you're saying about him? Has he not had his hands rather full?
That was just ONE suggestion of a relatively non-controversial yet quite transformation reform he could propose. The point is that 3+ months in, he has not only failed to submit any proposal for fundamental reforms, he has failed to even float any ideas, to even test the waters of political receptivity and spark debate. The changes he has conducted were all tactical and conjunctural. His "big picture" goal so far has been to be able to borrow money on the international markets. Am I missing any major reform he has proposed so far? Labor, tax, budgetary, penal code? Did he put even a study group together to explore those things? Any debates at all?

It rather seems that you have preconceived notions regarding the man, which you are now seeking to justify. And as I said, perhaps time will show you to have been right. But for now it looks like you're projecting stuff that's not there.
Yes, my "preconceived notion" based on my 14 months living in Buenos Aires under him was that he was not for fundamental change. So far, he has lived up to that expectation. I might change my opinion once he tries, even if timidly, to propose fundamental reforms. But I ma not holding my breath.

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]I have not read, for instance, of Temer having to deal with a Congress that is largely if not overwhelmingly loyal to Dilma[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]
[/background]
He has to deal with a Congress that is incredibly resistant to reforms. Yet, 2 days in, a lousy politician as Temer is already talking about fundamental reforms in social security, labor laws, and fiscal laws. Is he going to be able to pass those reforms through congress? Probably not. But at least there is talks about it. There are political negotiations to at least try to build momentum. That is from a run of the mill Brazilian politician who has been in office for 2 days. What has Macri, the "savior" proposed in terms of fundamental reforms in the last 3 months?

you talk without end of Brazil's judiciary being independent where here we have Justicia Legitima and Gils Carbo, and where CFK can hurl shit against the judge investigating her with impunity. I have not read of huge sectors of Brazilian society acting as if Dilma is still president. Etc.
That is why there needs to be fundamental reforms on how government employees (including Judges) are hired. If he launched an initiative to reform the hiring process, submitted a new law and started campaigning, with a narrative such as: "With this new law, ANY Argentine with a law degree, from Ushuaia to Salta, would have a fair shot at being a Federal Judge or prosecutor. No need to have political connections or powerful patrons. Just knowledge, will and drive. Even I, Macri and any successor of mine, from any party, would be unable to influence the selection and action of judges and prosecutors, once this law is passed" Who in the wide population would oppose such a measure? Using what argument? The crowd would probably applaud the man. Even if it never gets passed, at lesat there was an attempt. At leats there was an effort to start the debate. But we don't get even that.

To point at a given initiative, even a good one, and give the man grief for not having implemented it - yet - a huge 'yet', given the makeup of Congress in particular and the judicial/political environment in general, and the amount of stuff he has on his plate - is just nuts.
Again, what has he proposed, in terms of structural reforms, so far? Even lousy, corrupt and oligarchic Temer (who is the typical South American politician) has. Going by that benchmark, I stick to my assessment that Macri is the typical South American politician, and he will not even attempt to transform Argentina. To try and fail, I respect. But staying politically safe and satisfied with tweaking the status quo for the benefit the oligarchy he represents, I despise.
 
First of all, I will again note that I personally, and most responsible posters here, never, ever, called Macri a 'savior'. It's a construct made up by Artie McStrawman.
To the extent that he is a savior, that is much less a function of anything about him personally than about the cluster#### that preceded him. We all know that.

Otherwise, we're essentially arguing over a timetable. You argue that you've seen enough of the man to make up your mind. I think it's a wee bit early.

Since taking office 5 months ago, the man('s government) has:
  • normalized the foreign exchange regime, sidestepping some big landmines in the process;
  • repealed the lion's share of taxes on agricultural exports;
  • attempted to fix a dysfunctional SC by forwarding an impartial and bias-free slate of candidates;
  • sacrificed a huge amount of political capital to push through the holdout resolution;
  • attempted/is attempting to clean out the vast layer of booby traps/Trojan horses left in the federal bureaucracy: a step the importance and urgency of which seems to be lost on most people.
    When X percent of the federal workforce was deliberately put there on account of their politics and presumed hostility to your plans, your ideology and you personally, when the culture in most government agencies is completely ideological, cleaning house is pretty much imperative to getting anything done. There is no tradition nor legacy of career professionals who will respond to changes at the top; it is not difficult to envision a manifestacion being coupled to sabotage on the part of the government workforce to create mayhem.
    (Then again, who could possibly want to create mayhem? Is saqueo a Spanish word or a Portuguese one?)
  • Not even going through lesser stuff like Davos, the prison break, being indicted over the Panama Papers, etc.
  • All having entered a completely broken house, both literally as well as figuratively.
    (Regarding that last bit: you make a big deal regarding the sincerity of Macri's decision to let go of the presidential fleet - but he seems to have no problem having the press report the extensive upgrades he is making to his residence. The distinction should be enough to dispel the notion that his decision re the planes was to cultivate an everyman image. He does spend where it is necessary; obscene amounts of money on maintaining obsolete planes is not necessary).
This all off the top of my head, I'm sure I missed stuff.

I don't consider that a timid list. IMHO it more than justifies adequately explains any inaction on other areas, worthy and/or structurally important as they may be.
 
According to a today´s article in LA NACION, between 2003 and 2014 1,400,000 public employees were added to the goverment payroll(including federal, state and municipal jobs), wich were already bloated longtime ago.
This created an additional expenditure of 480,000 million pesos a year. This is twice as much as what was owed to the speculatives foreign funds("fondos buitres") that will amount to 187,000 million pesos, and is greater than the present fiscal defict (400,000 million pesos).
 
According to a today´s article in LA NACION, between 2003 and 2014 1,400,000 public employees were added to the goverment payroll(including federal, state and municipal jobs), wich were already bloated longtime ago.
This created an additional expenditure of 480,000 million pesos a year. This is twice as much as what was owed to the speculatives foreign funds("fondos buitres") that will amount to 187,000 million pesos, and is greater than the present fiscal defict (400,000 million pesos).

Eye-opening and sobering numbers. But even that may yet pale to the effect of these hires - to effectively have blurred the lines between the government and the various K movements.
To have coopted the government - or at least large parts thereof - as an arm of La Campora.
The consequences as regard Aerolineas Argentinas are well known. One may imagine that Aerolineas was not the only sector where this took place.
For all that money, there may well be a negative return.
If this isn't illegal, that would only be because nobody ever contemplated a takeover of this magnitude.
 
Back
Top