Which Has The Better Economy: Argentina Or Chile?

[arlean]

Regarding our discussion about whether there is a middle class in Chile, I know you saw my point. People who are well to do are well to do for a reason. Some may have inherited it but for most it did not fall out of the ethers on them, as with the family I described. If only we could help people to get over the dependent idea of whether someone else will GIVE me a job. It is that mindset that holds most people back I think.

Sure it is hard work learning to run a business and most of us who do it have failures but even that forces us to grow if only we will persist. I see this all the time in people wanting to come here (South America) but depend on someone to give them a job instead of giving themselves a job. Often they are looking for more freedom but freedom comes from being independent. You can set a true entrepreneur down almost anywhere and he can see opportunity. It is a learned mindset. We learn it from doing it! And being willing to put in the effort.

It is the people who are willing to do that who end up with the money. And they SHOULD. They are the ones who invested their own money, who burned the midnight oil to learn and to make the business work. I don't resent them. I admire them. But then I always did. I never did have that me against the employer attitude that I see. If you don't like the employer, then go be your own employer.

 

[camberiu]

My impression is that there is a very small very rich upper class (with strong ties to the current center-right/extreme right government and the former Pinochet government) but a lot of poor Chileans and even lower middle class members seem struggling to make it.

- Chile has a higher number of mobile phones per capita than Argentina ( 132/1000 people vs. 130/1000 people in Argentina)
- Chile has a higher number of Internet users per capita than Argentina (68/100 people vs 55/100 people in Argentina)
- Chile has a higher percentage of people with access to electricity at home than Argentina (99.4% vs 97% in Argentina)
- Chile has higher life expectancy, literacy rate and lower child mortality rate than Argentina (50% diference).

So the hard data in no way backs up your impression that Chile has a small rich class and a majority struggling to make days meet. Quite the contrary, the data clearly shows that the AVERAGE Chilean lives better (in terms of material goods at least) and more comfortably than the average Argentinian.

 

[germano]

Sure it is hard work learning to run a business and most of us who do it have failures but even that forces us to grow if only we will persist. I see this all the time in people wanting to come here (South America) but depend on someone to give them a job instead of giving themselves a job. Often they are looking for more freedom but freedom comes from being independent. You can set a true entrepreneur down almost anywhere and he can see opportunity. It is a learned mindset. We learn it from doing it! And being willing to put in the effort.

Just so there is no misunderstanding: the businesses of the participants of Startup Chile program that I had met did not all fail. Some seem to work well. It is just that they all have moved somewhere else after the six months of the program. The requirement of Startup Chile (if selected) is that you come to Chile for six months - you don't have to target Chile as a market or stay in Chile on the long term. So they came to Chile took the money to invest in their businesses and then moved away (US, Columbia, ...). The government's idea was/is to bring some of the startup-culture to Chile with that program.

 

[germano]

- Chile has a higher number of mobile phones per capita than Argentina ( 132/1000 people vs. 130/1000 people in Argentina)
- Chile has a higher number of Internet users per capita than Argentina (68/100 people vs 55/100 people in Argentina)
- Chile has a percentage of people with access to electricity at home than Argentina (99.4% vs 97% in Argentina)
- Chile has higher life expectancy, literacy rate and lower child mortality rate than Argentina (50% diference).

So the hard data in no way backs up your impression that Chile has a small rich class and a majority struggling to make days meet. Quite the contrary, the data clearly shows that the AVERAGE Chilean lives better (in terms of material goods at least) and more comfortably than the average Argentinian.

I did not say that the *majority* is struggling in Chile. Of course there is a middle class in between the poor and the rich.

 

[camberiu]

I did not say that the *majority* is struggling in Chile. Of course there is a middle class in between the poor and the rich.

The data CLEARLY shows that everyone in Chile (from the most poor to the most rich) is better off than their equivalent in Argentina. Pick whatever metric you want, from access to basic sanitation, prevalence of child malnutrition, per capita energy consumption, literacy rate, health expenditures per capita, percentages of births attended by skilled health staff or anything else, and Chile beats the crap out of Argentina on ANY of those statistics.

This idea that the average or poor Argentinian lives better than the average or poor chilean is a myth that refuses to die, despite of all the facts clearly pointing to the contrary.

 

[germano]

The data CLEARLY shows that everyone in Chile (from the most poor to the most rich) is better off than their equivalent in Argentina. Pick whatever metric you want, from access to basic sanitation, prevalence of child malnutrition, per capita energy consumption, literacy rate, health expenditures per capita, percentages of births attended by skilled health staff or anything else, and Chile beats the crap out of Argentina on ANY of those statistics.

This idea that the average or poor Argentinian lives better than the average or poor chilean is a myth that refuses to die, despite of all the facts clearly pointing to the contrary.

Can you provide that data with source?

 

[camberiu]

Births attended by skilled health staff
Health Expenditures per capita
Access to Sanitation
Incidence of tuberculosis
National savings rate
Electrical power consumption per capita

 

[germano]

... Pick whatever metric you want, [... ] literacy rate, [...] or anything else, and Chile beats the crap out of Argentina on ANY of those statistics.

I just googled the literacy rate and found that the difference is only 0.6% (source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2103.html#136) but Argentina counting age 10 and over while Chile is counting age 15 and over. Not really beating the crap out or Argentina ...

 

[camberiu]

I just googled the literacy rate and found that the difference is only 0.6% (source: https://www.cia.gov/...s/2103.html#136) but Argentina counting age 10 and over while Chile is counting age 15 and over. Not really beating the crap out or Argentina ...

Sorry, but to accomplish the same with a MUCH lower tax base, little inflation, little capital control, little income re-distribution and a MUCH friendlier business environment is beating the crap out of Argentina.

 

[germano]

Births attended by skilled health staff
Health Expenditures per capita
Access to Sanitation
Incidence of tuberculosis
National savings rate
Electrical power consumption per capita

Just clicked on the last one - the power consumption. It is quite interesting but does that really tell us if people are better off? I just added France and Germany for the fun of it: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.USE.ELEC.KH.PC/countries/CL-AR-DE-FR?display=graph and based on your interpretation people in France would be better of that people in Germany. Does not make a lot of sense ...