Who Will Be Elected President In 2015?

[Matiasba]

Clearly. It was the US boycott and the US boycott alone that brought Argentina down to the same level as its monkey neighbors. Makes perfect sense. How else could you explain how such a white, European and Aryan society could be left in dust by its brown and black neighbors? I mean, only an international conspiracy could explain the fact that even Paraguay won't accept Argentine pesos, or that Colombian universities outrank Argentine universities, or that Chile has a child mortality rate much lower than Argentina's. Such a white, European and Aryan population could not be inept, lazy and corrupt all by itself. Only an international conspiracy can explain the fall of Argentina.

its not a conspirancy, its only that after WWII the US ruled the world economy, and they could manage counties as they wanted, for example, with the Plan Marshall.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

The "triangulacion" is a fact the same than ths US put as a condition to get the Marshall plan, to do not buy Argentine even if our products were cheaper. They opened the classified files and it is confirmed.

However, this is not the point.

Peron was coup for an heterodox small group with no plan at all. In fact, even nazis groups were involved. Sounds familiar? Politicians were accusing each other of nazis in the last weeks. I feel a deja vu.

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpais/1-221830-2013-06-08.html

The remedy was worst than the desease because Peron was elected with almost as much votes as CFK.

There were a cold civil fight for 30 years that destroyed the country because thouse who hate Peron proscribe him. They behaved as an occupation force and the violence rise until that in the early 70' they were killing each other on the streets.

If you study the genocide of Videla, he killed Peronistas because his plan was to erase the Peronism. He put a super cheap dollar and open the importation and chinese products destroyed the industry. But he got the dollar taking loans. 90 billions.

People who hates want the government to do the same, to take loans to have dollars to sell super cheap.

In this point the government is doing what it has to be done, not spending over the budget (in dollars).

Today we are under a similar situation ( but now there is freedom, ask Lanata) because there is people who vomit hate and behave like they want an insurrection but they have no plan at all. They are worst that what they critizes.

Is the remedy better? I m sure that it is not.

CFK is not Peron, if there is a coup she is going to fight.

I don t want Argentina to go back to the 70' and its political violence.

I do like democracy, that s why i always point the lies of thouse who want a coup.

Of course, thouse who hate or are paid, they don t like democracy neither freedom, because they accuse me of working for the Campora because I disagree or because I evidence the lies.

i work for la Campora? right, make me laugh.

 

[trennod]

There's no coup coming bajo stop scare mongering. No one is gunning for that, not even clarin. We're not living in the 1970s anymore.

Re dollars, people don't want the government to take out loans in USDs so they can buy dollars (not that anyone is going to loan to argentina!) what they want is that their savings and income aren't eroded by 35% inflation. The government however, has no interest in stopping inflation, why don't you tell me what responsible, tried and tested fiscal policies they have employed to stop inflation?

You do realise the economy will never advance sustainably with those levels of inflation.

 

[Matiasba]

There's no coup coming bajo stop scare mongering. No one is gunning for that, not even clarin. We're not living in the 1970s anymore.

Re dollars, people don't want the government to take out loans in USDs so they can buy dollars (not that anyone is going to loan to argentina!) what they want is that their savings and income aren't eroded by 35% inflation. The government however, has no interest in stopping inflation, why don't you tell me what responsible, tried and tested fiscal policies they have employed to stop inflation?

You do realise the economy will never advance sustainably with those levels of inflation.

the economy has been growing unstoppably for ten years!! and with social inclusion, which means lot of new people (previously excluded) into formal economy.
To stop the inflation we have the 2012 policies, like cancelling subsidios to the rich (Recoleta, country clubs) and the import restrictions. Both measures throwed down the economical growth, we passed from an 8% of growth to a 2%, it slowed down the economy and hence, the inflation.

 

[trennod]

the economy has been growing unstoppably for ten years!! and with social inclusion, which means lot of new people (previously excluded) into formal economy.
To stop the inflation we have the 2012 policies, like cancelling subsidios to the rich (Recoleta, country clubs) and the import restrictions. Both measures throwed down the economical growth, we passed from an 8% of growth to a 2%, it slowed down the economy and hence, the inflation.

OMG I dont know where to start with this post and I dont know why I am bothering. Firstly, the slow down in growth is not due to a government driven attack of inflation. And you have contradicted yourself. On one hand you say growth has slowed to 2% yet then you saw Argentina is growing unstoppably? I think your first point is right. It definitely has slowed.

Secondly, where is your evidence that inflation has slowed? Maybe INDEC stats...

Next, do you really think the pulling of subsidies was to attack inflation? It was a cash grab used on social plans on the other hands. Hardly a pull-back on overall government spending which might help reduce government spending.

 

[Matiasba]

OMG I dont know where to start with this post and I dont know why I am bothering. Firstly, the slow down in growth is not due to a government driven attack of inflation. And you have contradicted yourself. On one hand you say growth has slowed to 2% yet then you saw Argentina is growing unstoppably? I think your first point is right. It definitely has slowed.

Secondly, where is your evidence that inflation has slowed? Maybe INDEC stats...

Next, do you really think the pulling of subsidies was to attack inflation? It was a cash grab used on social plans on the other hands. Hardly a pull-back on overall government spending which might help reduce government spending.

lets put it in a simpler way, and see if you understand.

Argentina has been growing from 2003 till today, unstoppably. Fact. First with an anual rate of 8%, since 2012 with an anual rate of 2%. Tell me, where do you see the contradiction you mentioned? Please answer this question.

The difference between 8% in 2011 and 2% in 2012 is partially explained because of imported restrictions. The imported restrictions slowed down the growth, pretty much, and with that, the inflation. Imported stuff, mostly capital assets, dinamizes the economy and make it grow.

After the 2011 elections the governmeent knew that it could not continue with that inflation, because prices would be at the same level as the more expenses places of the world, but without big salaries. So pretty much they decided to put some break on this "growing with inflation" model. The inflation, Indec says, it has been decelerating since then, not as the growth, but indeed it declined. I know you wont believe in Indec but they are still reliable to me, since they have the most resources to measure these things, much more than some samples private consultants make, which of course are linked to oposition and need to transmit sensacionalism. Its like exagerating polls before the elections, they said Kirchnerismo could lost but they won 54% to 19% (or 17% dont remember well). So pretty much you chose to whom you believe, I dont believe the 100% to Indec, but I doubt of private sources as well, so the truth is probably in the middle of that.

 

[camberiu]

l I know you wont believe in Indec but they are still reliable to me,

Whatever disagreements we might have Matias, I admire your courage. It takes balls the size of coconuts to admit to something like this (in writing !). Hell, I think most people would feel more confortable admitting to being, I dunno, piglet sodomizers, than of trusting the INDEC. People might acuse of anything, except of lacking the courage to admitting to embarrassing stuff.

 

[Matiasba]

Whatever disagreements we might have Matias, I admire your courage. It takes balls the size of coconuts to admit to something like this (in writing !). Hell, I think most people would feel more confortable admitting to be being, I dunno, piglet sodomizers, than trusting INDEC. People might acuse of of anything, except of lacking the courage to admitting to embarrassing stuff.

I put that in some way they re still reliable to me but I also said I dont take the 100%.
See, Indec is the national Institute for an enormous mass of indicators of every kind, they are the most big institute to do this, they are the ones that have more resources, there are still a lot of things they measurre that are reliable to me. They have much more tools than any other people want.
Then, I dont think about inflation they tell they true, I know they manipulate numbers, but about this particular issue of decelerating when we see a general panorama of deceleration in economy, I believe it.

 

[trennod]

lets put it in a simpler way, and see if you understand.

Argentina has been growing from 2003 till today, unstoppably. Fact. First with an anual rate of 8%, since 2012 with an anual rate of 2%. Tell me, where do you see the contradiction you mentioned? Please answer this question.

The difference between 8% in 2011 and 2% in 2012 is partially explained because of imported restrictions. The imported restrictions slowed down the growth, pretty much, and with that, the inflation. Imported stuff, mostly capital assets, dinamizes the economy and make it grow.

I know you wont believe in Indec but they are still reliable to me, since they have the most resources to measure these things, Its like exagerating polls before the elections, they said Kirchnerismo could lost but they won 54% to 19% (or 17% dont remember well). So pretty much you chose to whom you believe, I dont believe the 100% to Indec, but I doubt of private sources as well, so the truth is probably in the middle of that.

You know I dont usually attack the poster but Matias me estás cargando? No tenés verguenza, estas diciendo cualquier cosa. Heres a few comments:
- growth was high due to it coming off a low base (the country was on its knees), there was only one way to go and that was up. Record soy and grains prices (totally out of the control of the government) also helped.
- the government hasnt tried to stop inflation. It needs to stop increasing the monetary base and decrease public spending & it hasnt done either. Check out the increase in the money in circulation (p2 of this report). Its increased 30% in the past 12 months. And look how the USD reserves has decreased in that time (as the government injects money in to the black market to try and control an illegal dollar they have themselves created through their policies).
http://www.bcra.gov....infomondiae.pdf
- the last bolded comment just says it all. You believe INDEC more than private estimates. So what, we have 8-9% inflation? Why dont you check your supermarket receipts.

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

Man, I have got to get myself on the Kampora email distribution list...I swear, never ending amusement.

Fair play Trennod. You are a more patient man than I. I have given up, tossed in the towel, the absurdity of the responses from the usual suspekts has me beaten. You cannot debate with kraziness.

The only thing left to do is sit back and hope the local electorate and opposition give us some sort of indication that this country might have a future in the Oct elections. Until then we have 3 months of loopy propaganda to suck up.