Why is everybody complaining?

[middlepath]

I often read BAExpats and I love the community so I decided to sign up. But I see posts with lots of complaints like this and wonder why you don't just go back to your country? Please don't use the USA as an example, because we have massive amounts of corruption. It's just not as public and we're too dumb to ask questions.

It's really depressing to see who I assume are Americans, Australians, Western Europeans, and Citizens of the United Kingdom complaining about daily life in a country in which they chose to live. It's embarrassing and I feel ashamed to identify myself as an American. You realize that the IMF exploits Latin American, right? They're not a charity. You can blame American capitalism for a lot of the instability in Latin American, including Bolivia right now (climate change and lithium) and, in my opinion, Argentina.

Every good thing has a dark side and every bad thing contains the seeds of good. Sure, there is corruption. But that also means it's a bit easier to start a small business because if you get three no's, you'll also get two yesses. People don't lose their job for breaking rules here. If you've never benefitted from that your entire life, please feel free to make specific, quantified complaints so that I can still point out why your country is basically the same and people suck everywhere.

I'm not saying the corruption isn't horrible. What I am saying is you are heavily skewed to one side of the equation, blinded by your money, and unable to think in a mature way about a very complex, very nuanced issue that requires a more nimble mindset. I mean this respectfully. Please become more open-minded.

 

[London2Baires]

I often read BAExpats and I love the community so I decided to sign up. But I see posts with lots of complaints like this and wonder why you don't just go back to your country? Please don't use the USA as an example, because we have massive amounts of corruption. It's just not as public and we're too dumb to ask questions.

It's really depressing to see who I assume are Americans, Australians, Western Europeans, and Citizens of the United Kingdom complaining about daily life in a country in which they chose to live. It's embarrassing and I feel ashamed to identify myself as an American. You realize that the IMF exploits Latin American, right? They're not a charity. You can blame American capitalism for a lot of the instability in Latin American, including Bolivia right now (climate change and lithium) and, in my opinion, Argentina.

Every good thing has a dark side and every bad thing contains the seeds of good. Sure, there is corruption. But that also means it's a bit easier to start a small business because if you get three no's, you'll also get two yesses. People don't lose their job for breaking rules here. If you've never benefitted from that your entire life, please feel free to make specific, quantified complaints so that I can still point out why your country is basically the same and people suck everywhere.

I'm not saying the corruption isn't horrible. What I am saying is you are heavily skewed to one side of the equation, blinded by your money, and unable to think in a mature way about a very complex, very nuanced issue that requires a more nimble mindset. I mean this respectfully. Please become more open-minded.

There are 4/5 right wing, nationalistic trolls on this site who are unfortunately the most vocal, though they're not representative in my view.

You often hear in the same breath complaints about illigal immigrants in their countries , and then how these same complainers don't pay taxes here and live 'under the radar'. Many of these same people talk about argentin corruption etc.

I wouldn't waste my time engaging with them, they are either disingenuous propagandists, ill informed, genuine but misguided people, or a mix of the two.

Just remember that just because they shout and spread their bile the loudest, they are still a minority.

Sometimes I interviene in some of the most rabid posts, if only to give an alternative narrative to those impressionable uninformed undecided readers who may come across the hate and often totally hypocritical talking points.

I wish you luck with engaging with these guys, but they're mostly lost causes who are not interested in genuine debate.

Cheers!

 

[Joglide]

I often read BAExpats and I love the community so I decided to sign up. But I see posts with lots of complaints like this and wonder why you don't just go back to your country? Please don't use the USA as an example, because we have massive amounts of corruption. It's just not as public and we're too dumb to ask questions.

It's really depressing to see who I assume are Americans, Australians, Western Europeans, and Citizens of the United Kingdom complaining about daily life in a country in which they chose to live. It's embarrassing and I feel ashamed to identify myself as an American. You realize that the IMF exploits Latin American, right? They're not a charity. You can blame American capitalism for a lot of the instability in Latin American, including Bolivia right now (climate change and lithium) and, in my opinion, Argentina.

Every good thing has a dark side and every bad thing contains the seeds of good. Sure, there is corruption. But that also means it's a bit easier to start a small business because if you get three no's, you'll also get two yesses. People don't lose their job for breaking rules here. If you've never benefitted from that your entire life, please feel free to make specific, quantified complaints so that I can still point out why your country is basically the same and people suck everywhere.

I'm not saying the corruption isn't horrible. What I am saying is you are heavily skewed to one side of the equation, blinded by your money, and unable to think in a mature way about a very complex, very nuanced issue that requires a more nimble mindset. I mean this respectfully. Please become more open-minded.

I endorse what you say here and think complaining about Argentina without recognising the massive power imbalance other countries enjoy (eg the current peso rate!) is self-deceiving conceit. Most of the better informed posts (as I read them so its my view) have some empathy with Argentina as a great country and are puzzled by its evidence difficulties in managing its affairs in the way - for example - Uruguay has for the past century. There are several good reasons though I take issue with the implication that the IMF has created rather than compounding Argentine problems. For me, the undoubted oligarchy within Argentina which holds perhaps 80-90% of its wealth and most of its income, without contributing to the resolution of long standing problems, is a key issue. Unlike the USA and Europe the middle classes here have insufficient resources and leverage to transform the gross inequalities of society. Start a business, yes. Within weeks you will have the problem of paying or not paying proper taxes on your employees and the possibility of colluding to avoid taxes. This happens with latino employees in USA for sure but the IRS would come down hard of any substantial employer transparently doing this. Big corporations in USA and Europe are as irresponsible as they are allowed to be in most cases, even more so in Russia and Africa, but the state usually has restrictions on public office corruption in USA-Europe etc and the civil service is rarely grossly corrupt. The IMF merely confirms this power inequality and capitalist hegemony.

 

[citygirl]

I often read BAExpats and I love the community so I decided to sign up. But I see posts with lots of complaints like this and wonder why you don't just go back to your country? Please don't use the USA as an example, because we have massive amounts of corruption. It's just not as public and we're too dumb to ask questions.

It's really depressing to see who I assume are Americans, Australians, Western Europeans, and Citizens of the United Kingdom complaining about daily life in a country in which they chose to live. It's embarrassing and I feel ashamed to identify myself as an American. You realize that the IMF exploits Latin American, right? They're not a charity. You can blame American capitalism for a lot of the instability in Latin American, including Bolivia right now (climate change and lithium) and, in my opinion, Argentina.

Every good thing has a dark side and every bad thing contains the seeds of good. Sure, there is corruption. But that also means it's a bit easier to start a small business because if you get three no's, you'll also get two yesses. People don't lose their job for breaking rules here. If you've never benefitted from that your entire life, please feel free to make specific, quantified complaints so that I can still point out why your country is basically the same and people suck everywhere.

I'm not saying the corruption isn't horrible. What I am saying is you are heavily skewed to one side of the equation, blinded by your money, and unable to think in a mature way about a very complex, very nuanced issue that requires a more nimble mindset. I mean this respectfully. Please become more open-minded.

Have you run a business en blanco in Argentina? I'm just curious about what you are basing your opinion on the"ease of starting a small business" for example.

As for the rest - the answer is two-fold. One, venting with other expats is usually a safe way of blowing off steam instead of doing it with Argentine family and friends who understandably so would take great offense to criticism from an extranjero. Two - it's expensive and people are stressed and understandably worried about what the future holds. Three - many things in the country do suck (doesn't mean it isn't bad elsewhere but that's not an excuse).

We still have business in Argentina. My family is still there. We're there a lot - multiple times a year and I miss living there in some ways but I sure as hell don't miss running businesses there or dealing with the paperwork and headaches (never corruption though). The US and many countries do bear some blame for the problems but so does Argentina itself.

(PS - I found expats who complain endlessly to be boring and depressing but I do understand sometimes you just want to come here and vent)

 

[deadOA]

Thread of the year.

 

[deadOA]

What is puzzling is the relentless pushing of the talking points of the gazillionaires.

No doubt whatsoever that there is not a single gazillionaire on this forum. The overwhelming majority are after having a steak, riding a taxi, and hiring a maid. Yet this forum is full of propaganda of the gazillionaires.

Why?

 

[Ries]

Personally, I live here because I LIKE it, and because its better, in many ways, than the USA, where I live part of the year. Rather than complain, I am usually happy.

This made me happy today- https://www.puraciudad.com.ar/retir...as-la-reunion-de-alberto-y-rodriguez-larreta/

Before he is even inaugurated, Alberto is taking DOWN bars.

 

[middlepath]

There are 4/5 right wing, nationalistic trolls on this site who are unfortunately the most vocal, though they're not representative in my view.

You often hear in the same breath complaints about illigal immigrants in their countries , and then how these same complainers don't pay taxes here and live 'under the radar'. Many of these same people talk about argentin corruption etc.

I wouldn't waste my time engaging with them, they are either disingenuous propagandists, ill informed, genuine but misguided people, or a mix of the two.

Just remember that just because they shout and spread their bile the loudest, they are still a minority.

Sometimes I interviene in some of the most rabid posts, if only to give an alternative narrative to those impressionable uninformed undecided readers who may come across the hate and often totally hypocritical talking points.

I wish you luck with engaging with these guys, but they're mostly lost causes who are not interested in genuine debate.

Cheers!

Somehow my reply became its own post. Thanks for that! Haha

I decided to stop lurking and join because lots of people do have amazing things to say. But you're right, a couple are quite loud.

I just want to reiterate that I'm advocating for balanced thinking, not glorifying any particular country or promoting Argentine (or American) exceptionalism.

Yes, I'm in the process of starting a business en blanco with my Argentine gf. Without her, it would be a literal impossibility. So I get that part.

Thanks everyone for your constructive replies.

 

[Weyland]

Some people are just miserable no matter the location. While others will always find the positives in life. I think a great example of that on this board is RIES. Always pointing out the best that Argentina has to offer. I'd assume the reasons for complaints are different. Criticizing aspects of Argentina doesn't necessarily mean that people don't want to be here and that they don't love it. If you complain why don't you leave, reminds a bit of the attitude of the Brazilian military dictatorship - Brasil, love it or leave it - was their slogan.

Your second point that corruption is just as bad in the US or Western Europe, I'd have to disagree. Of course there is corruption in the "first world" countries. Corruption doesn't make it any easier to run a business here though. I've run a business in Argentina and the US and in Argentina because of the corruption, inefficient justice system, the economy, it's much more challenging. The problem with corruption is it infects every aspect of the government. If you want to import something, many times you're going to have to bribe someone. Any type of business that is getting inspected, you'll need to bribe someone. When money is allocated to the military - money is stolen by generals, allocated to police it's stolen by police chiefs, allocated to schools stolen by administrators, and on and on. It has a real effect on society. Yes people suck and there are bad people everywhere but the degree of corruption is certainly worse in Argentina than many other places.

The mess that Argentina is in is of their own doing. Macri continued the money printing and inflation and borrowed billions of dollars that couldn't be paid back. IMF austerity measures made things worse, but that Argentina was put in the position to ask for funding in the first place wasn't because of american capitalism. Politicians would like you to believe that it isn't their fault. It's the IMF, it's american capitalism, it's the venezuelan immigrants taking all the jobs, it's the colombians causing all the crime, but it certainly isn't because of their own decisions.

There are many things to love here though, just because the US or UK is less corrupt or better off economically, doesn't necessarily mean it is better!

 

[semigoodlookin]

Meh, because there's things to complain about. I mean, welcome to the board, but your first post was itself a complaint.

I would say some of the things I complain about are more discussing issues in this country than simply complaining about them. Some of those complaints are just fact, many are opinion. And yes you're correct, it would be the same in any other country I lived in because all countries have problems. That's hardly a hot take. Problem is, I live here in Argentina so my day-to-day life is affected by the problems here. Is it better or worse than other countries? Frankly I don't care, Argentina is the situation I live in.

Say the corruption in the United States is 10 times worse than Argentina, why would that mean we shouldn't complain about corruption here? What goes on in Argentina still has a measurable negative impact.