Why would anyone come to this country in this century?

[Newman_ZA]

@Emilia Hertz I think that you need to travel. Get out of Argentina for a while. If you are young and have no responsibilities go out there and try new things and live a different life. The Argentinian passport is still strong so there are a few countries to try without the need for a visa. Who knows... you might end up staying in another country or you might just end up back here with a better appreciation of Argentina. Asking expats (most of whom are old and have income from overseas) will only give you one (distorted) perspective.

 

[bdk1]

If you want to move to Europe because you're poor here, I hate to be the one to break it to you but you're gone be poor there too, except without your family or friends. To move to Europe, in addition to needing the legal right to stay there, being able to speak the language, and geting a job, you're going to need money to both get there physically and get setup.

This is not untrue, however there are plenty of countries in Europe where you can find work only speaking English and there's plenty of it - including the country where I live now for most of the year, the Netherlands. I am quite active in Argentine expat/immigrant circles here and the vast majority spoke zero Dutch when they came here. Most only started learning after a few years working here and there's even some who after many years don't speak it at all, especially if they live in Amsterdam or Rotterdam. There is English-only work in all fields and pay grades. It is not uncommon in bigger cities to see Dutch people communicating with a waiter in English because the waiter doesn't speak Dutch.

Also, plenty of Argentines I know here had no EU citizenship and were hired out of Argentina by simply applying to jobs. They were specialized and obviously had a profile that was in high demand, but they weren't all technical or IT. If you have a skillset or work history that is hard to come by here, it is quite easy for the company to arrange a work visa for you, unlike in other EU countries. A highly skilled migrant is simply defined by salary, so if the company's offering EUR 4,800 gross (which is above average but not particularly high), or EUR 3,500 if you're 30 or younger, they can get you a skilled migrant visa. I've met a few Argentines who came here under this scheme working in Finance or Compliance. Also an accountant who had never been in the Netherlands and just applied to and was hired (by simply applying for a job from Argentina) at a company which needed Spanish-speaking accountants, but this one had a EU passport.

Another way out for many Argentines if you don't have a EU passport and you're younger than 30 is doing work-and-travel. You will be working as a waiter or a delivery worker, but if you live very frugally you're likely to be able to even save some money.

Anyway, I think that there are plenty of options for most scenarios. I can't mention all of them here but there's many more based on your circumstances (all of which I've seen Argentines do), such as the non-lucrative visa if you or a relative have enough cash, doing a master's degree (again, you need money but in many countries and unlike the US, you can then work), or one that is very common amongst Argentines: staying in Spain illegally for 3 years and then getting legal residency through "arraigo social" (and citizenship 2 years after getting this residency).

I wouldn't give up on emigrating just because you weren't able to get a EU passport.

 

[antipodean]

Other countries like Norway and Denmark are also looking for foreign workers for skilled and unskilled jobs, and there are a lot of Argentines from Copenhagen to Trosmsø. You can apply for jobs before you leave and they provide a work permit. Like Netherlands, most work in English and then learn the local language if staying a few years. There, even if you have a minimum wage job like a Rappi, while you’ll probably share an apartment, you will still have a decent amount of money to save each month and time off each year to be able to enjoy it and lead a dignified life. Not to mention excellent social services and good career prospects if you have a profession once you’ve established residency and better integrated into the society (you won’t need to worry about delivering rappis the rest of your life)

I’d avoid the more “popular” countries for expats like Spain, Portugal, France etc where there is much more competition from other expats because there life is harder if you don’t have a well paying job and finding a well paying job is very difficult. Germany is ok, and most (legal) expats are by no means living in “poverty”, if you speak German however it will be much better than if you don’t as you can find better jobs and there are plenty of international companies if you have a professional background who also sponsor work visas for successful foreign applicants (a lot of Brazilians, Colombians and people from Latin America work in them also.)

Go and try something new. The first years or so of moving to any new place will be hard, especially financially, but they will get better. Open your mind and know that Argentina will still be here if it’s not what you expected (and if you do come back, hopefully you can be a positive influence on society here and share the good things you learnt / acquired from elsewhere with those who haven’t had the chance.)

 

[quilleroarg]

Often Argentina's problems are only known once you live in Argentina. When people come as a tourist they may only see parts of the country that they like and they only see the problems later. Sometimes they already have an Argentine family by then, which complicates leaving the country.

Couldn't have said it better, I spent 5 years and just recently left to settle in Europe and I couldn't agree more that you are not aware of the problems until you live there and then it's just damn hard to leave because of those same problems, kind of a paradox

 

[SergeGGG]

@Emilia Hertz I think that you need to travel. Get out of Argentina for a while. If you are young and have no responsibilities go out there and try new things and live a different life. The Argentinian passport is still strong so there are a few countries to try without the need for a visa. Who knows... you might end up staying in another country or you might just end up back here with a better appreciation of Argentina. Asking expats (most of whom are old and have income from overseas) will only give you one (distorted) perspective.

THIS, I was in the same position as the OP once, wanted to leave the Conurbano so bad you wouldn't believe it, but even back then I knew CABA was a great city with lots to offer. So in the end I was lucky enough to leave and make all of my dreams come true, but there was one thing I still wanted to do badly and that was living in the city, so after a while in the UK I ended up working remotely since 2015, that allowed me to live wherever I wanted and after traveling around I decided to enjoy CABA and man, best city in the world if you ask me, and I know plenty of them.

So in order to judge a culture, a country or whatever you have to be able compare it with something else, and as much as I love Iceland, the UK or Spain I'm in love with my country, my culture and CABA. Still hate the Conurbano though

 

[bdk1]

THIS, I was in the same position as the OP once, wanted to leave the Conurbano so bad you wouldn't believe it, but even back then I knew CABA was a great city with lots to offer. So in the end I was lucky enough to leave and make all of my dreams come true, but there was one thing I still wanted to do badly and that was living in the city, so after a while in the UK I ended up working remotely since 2015, that allowed me to live wherever I wanted and after traveling around I decided to enjoy CABA and man, best city in the world if you ask me, and I know plenty of them.

So in order to judge a culture, a country or whatever you have to be able compare it with something else, and as much as I love Iceland, the UK or Spain I'm in love with my country, my culture and CABA. Still hate the Conurbano though

Same here. Even growing up privileged in a nice neighbourhood of CABA I hated Argentina with all my heart and wanted to leave since I was 12. In my 30s, I was shocked to see I began to miss it. You are right that your perspective changes entirely. Almost all of the expat Argies I talk to say they miss their friends, family and culture but they appreciate the (a) economic upward mobility, and (b) safety of the "first world." How much weight that carries in the equation of going back is a personal matter, but I'd say around half say they would never ever go back, and the other half want to do or consider it at some point.

I am lucky I now get to spend a quarter of the year in CABA, but that childhood dream has now been reversed and I hope to be living in Argentina by the time I'm 40

 

[Brit_In_BA]

Most people take for granted the countries they live in (Europe, US, Canada etc) and after a while become miserable and only see the negatives, like I did with the typical mundane English lifestyle and constant crappy weather. Moving to Argentina was a breath of fresh air but after a while I became so frustrated with the country and the way almost nothing works as it should. 2 and a half years after leaving I constantly find myself wanting to go back as I crave certain things that the UK can’t offer me. However, I have to constantly remind myself why I left there in the first place. Growing up as a young man there with a wife and potentially kids is nigh on impossible (unless you’re one of the few who has a great salary in USD). Saying this, I still have my heart set on retiring early in Patagonia. I’ve never been in love with a place like I am with there

 

[tangobob]

I run a comparative Excel spreadsheet for favorable destinations, the variables considered are:

1. Language
2. Cultural Environment
3. Cosmopolitan City
4. Ethnic composition
5. Cost of living
6. Weather
7. Digital Communications
8. Accessibility

I give a punctuation for each variable. Buenos Aires for me is a 10 in most variables. Comparing with Bulgaria, Portugal, Bolivia or Thailand.

You forgot Tango.
I would argue the health care as well. Better than many in the world, but does not compare with The UK NHS. I often find myself defending the health care here when I am at home, but having watched two people die while the ambulance is stuck in traffic and one while two adjacent buildings have defibrillators that they will not lend out, I would not want to have a heart attack here.

 

[Johnny]

You forgot Tango.
I would argue the health care as well. Better than many in the world, but does not compare with The UK NHS. I often find myself defending the health care here when I am at home, but having watched two people die while the ambulance is stuck in traffic and one while two adjacent buildings have defibrillators that they will not lend out, I would not want to have a heart attack here.

I think the healthcare here is average and has suffered over the past 10-15 years. Another negative consequence of the country going broke. Not as many young physicians going abroad for training. Not to mention the latest in equipment unavailable due to a lack of funds.

I lived for a number of years in Bangkok and there really is no comparison. Thailand jumped feet first into medical tourism about 40 years ago and the results have been spectacular. It is the kind of intelligent planning and follow through that rarely happens here.

OTOH there are a ton of things I like about Argentina. As most of us know, living here is all kinds of a mixed blessing.

 

[Rich One]

You forgot Tango.
I would argue the health care as well. Better than many in the world, but does not compare with The UK NHS. I often find myself defending the health care here when I am at home, but having watched two people die while the ambulance is stuck in traffic and one while two adjacent buildings have defibrillators that they will not lend out, I would not want to have a heart attack here.

My analysis is Absolutely Subjective, I speak Spanish, like European type culture and ethnicity, enjoy local weather , etc. I have spent time in Thailand and must say the language and the culture are impossible to assimilate and participate, the hot humid weather as well is not my favorite. If the cost of living wasn't such a critical factor, I would select the South of France or Spain.