Would you move a family to Argentina...?

[citygirl]

I appreciate that most of the responses are warning us against our trip to Argentina however it would appear that a lot of those are coming from people near the centre of Buenos Aires which has a range of different issues to a 'leafy' suburb in Greater Buenos Aires it would seem.

Just to let you know, I live near Palomar. None of the issues mentioned here as reasons not to come (insecurity, crime, high cost of living, expenses for school, inefficiency, etc, etc) are unique to Capital Federal. You will face all these issues living in pvca as well.

You will need a car if you are living out here. Your wife will need one as well. To give you an idea of car costs - my used VW cost me appoximately 85.000 pesos. My insurance is about 5.000 a year. I spend about 500 a week on gas/tolls.

2 years will indeed go quickly and it's not a lifetime. Just be aware that the people that are cautioning you against this are doing so not because they are bitter or complaining but because there are many serious issues here right now.

 

[michael1977]

I think you should try. People are so afraid but Argentinians have been through harder times and this is nothing compared to what happened 10 years ago.

 

[earlyretirement]

many people seem to think that we'd struggle on a salary of 18K paid in pesos (this is after tax)

We've basically decided that we probably won't be able to save in Argentina but you won't be able to put a price on the memories and experiences we would gain as a consequence. What is the value of your children growing up bilingual in the early formative years of their life? I had a quick look at some of the costs of visiting an estancia (Englishgaucho)for a few days at a cost of $650 pp for three days including horse riding, accommodation and pick up. £85 or $139 US dollars. That seems remarkably cheap and the sort of thing which we can spend those pesos on. Lots of trips up to Tigre too. Eating out most nights. Holidays in Mendoza and Cordoba sampling the wine, food and fresh air.

I don't think people are necessarily saying you will "struggle" on that salary and especially with your company paying many of your expenses.

More so people are asking you to reflect on the risk/rewards of a move across the world based on everything that is going on in Argentina.

At least now (in light of your last post) it seems clearer that this potential move is something that you view as "adventure" vs. potential career advancement. So that's good if you figure out that portion of why you are doing this.

Absolutely Argentina is a beautiful country and no one can dispute that fact. No doubt you will have many beautiful memories and experiences so that part is true.

No one knows what your comfort zone is and also what your savings or financial situation is. If you can comfortably afford "not being able to save for two years" then obviously this is something that might be worth it for you and your family.

Just go into the move with your eyes wide open on everything that is happening in Argentina right now. Many times it's difficult to clearly get a true picture what is going on without being there on the ground and experiencing it.

Some of the things I experienced there, I'd tell friends or family in the States or Europe and they would have this incredulous look on their face like I was making it up.

But definitely if your spouse is on board with it knowing clearly what is going on in Argentina as well as you not jeopardizing your work potential or chances of coming back to a job in the UK when your stint in Argentina is over then it might make sense for you if you're still ok with the move after knowing all the potential risks.

Good luck.

 

[steveinbsas]

I hope ypu can get more information about the residence which would be provided. There can be a huge difference in the quality of houses just a few blocks apart.

If you are offered a house like this you should be very tempted:

http://www.argenprop.com/Propiedade...Venta-en-Moron?ViewNameResult=VistaResultados

But you might have second thoughts about spending two years in a house like this:

http://www.argenprop.com/Propiedade...Venta-en-Moron?ViewNameResult=VistaResultados

(I can't believe they left the garbage bags in front of the house when taking the photos. )

Do you know how close the housing is from your workplace?...grocery stores?

There won't be a plethora of taxis in Palomar like there is in Capital Federal. Getting a remis to go where you want when you want isn't always easy unless you own at least one car. You probably won't need two cars. If necessary, your wife can drive you to work on the days she needs to use the car.

If you do need a car here don't forget Argentina has left hand drive and few cars come with automatic transmissions, therefore the brake and clutch pedals are reversed from left hand drive and you'll need to use your right foot to accelerate. It takes some getting used to while at the same time you'll be learning how to deal with Argentine drivers.

 

[ElQueso]

BTW bugsbunny - I mentioned the lack of your response after the first couple just because sometimes we get people who come on and pose situations similar and never respond. Could be a troll trying to get things going amongst us, etc. You seem very serious and I hope I didn't put you off with that statement.

Also, CityGirl mentioned the price of her car and insurance, but I'll mention mine to give you the other end. I paid 27,000 pesos for a 5-door 1999 Megane about 5 years ago (177,000 kilometers) and pay about 2700 pesos a year for insurance. The price has surely gone up on my car since then, but I wouldn't think too much. I've paid about $10K in maintenance costs since then.

It sounds as if you might be living in a "Country" (closed neighborhood or "country club", both being a little different but sometimes referred to with the same name) the way you mention a "secure accommodation." That's a good thing for a newcomer living in the sticks, for sure.

Be warned, however, that there are issues even then. Just so you know, but nothing severe.

I used to live in a closed neighborhood to the north, a ways out. It is a bit more upper scale out there than to the west where you'd be and some of the problems we had may not be as evident for you all where you'd be.

We had at least 2-3 break-in attempts into the neighborhood every month. We had good security and never had a house successfully robbed while we lived there, but countries can be targets for gangs of thieves.

There were reports of numerous successful break-ins in other countries in the area where thieves would overwhelm the guards at a gate or otherwise gain entrance to the neighborhood, break in to a house and rob it blind. Mostly these types of robberies took place in countries that were along the highway where the roads were good and they could make a quick get away.

Not to scare you, just to let you know. There's a big resentment between the "haves" and the "have nots" here which will probably only get worse as things progress. The "have nots" often think it's ok to steal from the "haves."

Also, our potero here in my building had a brother who owned some land and did some farming out there. They are from Entre Rios (provincia to the north of Buenos Aires) originally. The brother sold his land and moved back there recently (last year) after being robbed by bandits on the highway a number of times. Granted, he was delivering produce to market when it happened, but just another of the little things that could happen. He is actually the only one I've ever heard of this happening to around Provincia Buenos Aires.

However, you'll almost certainly be fine. Just be aware.

With your salary you'll get and most everything else being covered, you should indeed be fine financially.

Good luck if you make the decision to come, and enjoy the experience!

 

[citygirl]

If the OP needs a car to drive to work, 2 cars is probably going to be a requirement. With little ones, you need to get them to school, to activities, to doctor's appts, go the grocery store, etc, etc. I don't think sharing a car is a viable option.

If the OP isn't driving to work, then yes, 1 car should be enough.

Remises aren't a realistic solution out here for every day living.

 

[jp]

Have a slightly different story to yours, but hopefully a few helpful tips.

I moved here with work about five years ago. It was a great career move, and as a few people have mentioned at the time Buenos Aires was a pretty comfortable city to live in. I did a two year stint with the company, figured out I'd gone as far as I was going to go and was making plans to move on when instead I had a baby. So I decided to quit my job and grow my own company, which we had started on the side. I now have a two year old, and a pretty comfortable standard of living. There are lots of things I still really like about living here, but I find it increasingly hard work. But a lot of that is because Buenos Aires has become familiar.

If you are only planning on doing a two year contract, I'd say go for it. You said you were looking for adventure, and a career boost - I'm sure you'll get both. Buenos Aires is an amazing city, and Argentina an amazing country. Loads to offer, lots to explore. The trouble is that over time it can grind you down. Crime, inflation, instability and insecurity are pressing issues for those of us who have made a life here, and plan to stay. But if you are only planning a couple of years - you'll barely notice it. You could be unlucky, and could be a victim of crime and economic troubles, but you sound like you're well aware of the risks that come with moving to a developing country. If you are confident in the job and the package you are being offered is solid you're already in a lot stronger position than most.

Suerte

j

 

[Iznogud]

... asking myself objectively does any of it really matter for a 2 yr posting? It seems like Bugbunnys work will take care of his major expenses like rent and schooling and hes hardly going to be on the breadline with 18k pesos for 2 years....2 years will pass at warp speed for most so why not take the risk?

I was born on this rollercoaster and spent most of my life riding it. Not an expat and my goal has been, since day one, to offer an indigenous perspective of life (as some of us balding argies go through it) and also try to grasp reality through your experiences and our cultural differences.
As I stated before, this is going to get much worse before it gets better. We are experiencing a more perverse "corralito". This whole thing might slide into a grinding halt in the following months. Sincerely hope I am mistaken and facts will prove me wrong.

I still remember running out of cash, most groceries stores closing and barricading and/or running out of goods to sell or prices to work with. I remember looking out the window at the grocery store across the street and wondering what were my options if bad came to worse. My youngest son was just a couple of months old, his older brother just 4 years old.
When the economy collapsed we had already gone through all our savings, hoping things would improve, but they didn't. It was an economic and psychological war of attrition. Banks took our coin and simply closed their doors, left us to fend for ourselves.

Pray we're not headed towards something worse this time. But I say this is not a panorama where you bring your family into hoping it's a good employement move or an "experience".
18k might just mean nothing in two days time if the banks decide not to open following a weekend. Not a pesimist, just someone who was there and had to go through that.

I apologize now. Bad, bad memories that bring tears to my eyes.

 

[Dipoots]

....

I still remember running out of cash, most groceries stores closing and barricading and/or running out of goods to sell or prices to work with. I remember looking out the window at the grocery store across the street and wondering what were my options if bad came to worse. My youngest son was just a couple of months old, his older brother just 4 years old.
When the economy collapsed we had already gone through all our savings, hoping things would improve, but they didn't. It was an economic and psychological war of attrition. Banks took our coin and simply closed their doors, left us to fend for ourselves.
....

I apologize now. Bad, bad memories that bring tears to my eyes.

OMG... I never knew it was so bad! I empathize with you not because I have gone through such a situation but cos I have kids tambien...

I can only say though I wasn't borne into a middle class or upper class family, I was borne in the right country...

 

[DavieW]

Looks like you made up your mind?

Good luck! You'll definitely have an experience, and with your attitude I'm sure it'll be mostly good. Although I'll put some money on you having a pretty low opinion of Argentina by the time you leave!

(Now there's a challenge.)