Would you move a family to Argentina...?

[Floppy]

Hi, I’m Irish but my husband is Argentinean and he asked me to post this article..

.. Argentina is blessed with two marvelous gifts... its multi climate and landscape...
The problems which lie in the society, political and culture leave much to be desired.
If your objective is pass some adventurous moments with your family,Welcome, but if it’s to come here and settle down with your family, I wouldn’t recommend it at this moment. Nothing is trustworthy here at the moment, what a pity.

Leonardo

 

[Floppy]

Heres my opinion...

Here is my opinion as a foreigner living in Argentina since 1995.
At first it was great, a big adventure, I met my Argentinian husband then. Got transferred from an English company and employment terms were localised including converted to peso. At the time Menem was in power. Then problems started in 2001 when the 1peso:1dollar was dissolved. Everything started to get very complicated, trips back home more expensive etc.. Then we had all the looting and unrest of 2001. We got over this and then things began to settle down. In the past 2 years things started to get a bit complicated once again, crime levels rose but it’s not the simple snatch and run, on one of the motorway access roads, we were attacked with planks of wood with nails, their idea was to pinch the wheel and obviously rob us but luckily nothing happened. Here you get robbed for 5 pesos, sometimes lives are lost and there are those express kidnappings. We go everywhere with a legalized gun. Arriving at home, on putting the car in the garage we have a routine, which goes like “… you go first, be alert, look around, if anything happens, just lock the door and call the police, I have the gun…” and we live in a very good neighborhood. You say you will be living in a 'leafy' suburb. At the moment, to live in a country(secure neighborhood) or have a nice car or dress well and have dollars or euros in your pocket is frowned upon by a high % of the population. I am always looking over my shoulder. The peso isn’t worth anything outside the country. I checked out in UK and Irish banks if I could change it for sterling or Euros and I was told that it’s not on the list of authorized currencies that they manage !!! I’ve just come back from a trip to the UK and the Tax people decided how much foreign currency I could buya miserable U$S1700 for 25 days . At the airport you had to declare everything, I didn’t and coming back I was questioned about my notebook(which was the company’s), my mobile phone, etc.. I felt like a criminal and was sick worrying in case my teabags would be confiscated!!

If you’re still convinced in coming just make sure of the following …

1. Salary paid outside the country in sterling /Euros/ dollars and get some local expenses in pesos
2. Get the company to put you into a safe community neighborhood and pay for it.
3. Get the company to give you regular flights back home for all the family.
Make the most of the adventure, it’s a great country, and the people I’ve been in touch with also marvelous the problem is the corrupt government.

 

[fifs2]

I was born on this rollercoaster and spent most of my life riding it. Not an expat and my goal has been, since day one, to offer an indigenous perspective of life (as some of us balding argies go through it) and also try to grasp reality through your experiences and our cultural differences.
As I stated before, this is going to get much worse before it gets better. We are experiencing a more perverse "corralito". This whole thing might slide into a grinding halt in the following months. Sincerely hope I am mistaken and facts will prove me wrong.

I still remember running out of cash, most groceries stores closing and barricading and/or running out of goods to sell or prices to work with. I remember looking out the window at the grocery store across the street and wondering what were my options if bad came to worse. My youngest son was just a couple of months old, his older brother just 4 years old.
When the economy collapsed we had already gone through all our savings, hoping things would improve, but they didn't. It was an economic and psychological war of attrition. Banks took our coin and simply closed their doors, left us to fend for ourselves.

Pray we're not headed towards something worse this time. But I say this is not a panorama where you bring your family into hoping it's a good employement move or an "experience".
18k might just mean nothing in two days time if the banks decide not to open following a weekend. Not a pesimist, just someone who was there and had to go through that.

I apologize now. Bad, bad memories that bring tears to my eyes.

Read this moving post last night but wanted to stress that the encouragement of others to live the "Argentinean experience" is in no way intended to minimize the horrible reality that you and others have lived through before. Death is always with us they say and I personally have a strong live for today mentality having lost my father at 3yrs of age. How we are all fashioned by our upbringing, experiences etc for good and for bad and I simply cannot imagine having to bring up small kids in the circumstances you describe. May destiny, God or other drive Argentina to the more positive future she and her citizens deserve!

 

[allcraz]

OP, I say go for it. Your hands will not be tied behind your back if worst comes to worst. I have posted recently about thinking about leaving the country after being here for over 5 years, but it's a different story. I have a permanent situation here, like many of those who have posted against you coming. But others who said "it's not forever, it's the honeymoon period..." have a point. My honeymoon period is over, but yours could be just around the corner. You seem confident, outgoing, and positive, and I'm sure you would make the best out of the experience, even more so after being warned. You have been given BsAs as an option, not anywhere else from what I understand, and it's an option I sincerely don't think you will regret after it's all over and done with. BsAs has its faults, as you have read, but from your responses it seems you are still leaning towards the move, so shut down this forum a little while after having read everyone's opinion and talk about with your family. You'll know what to do. I wish you and yours the best, and you will be welcome in BA if and when the time comes.

 

[amorphous face]

18,000 a month sounds like a lot to me but I am single. It would be an adventure. Don't expect to fly home in that time. Don't expect to save any money. Just keep it simple and enjoy asado and wine and have fun relaxing on Sundays. It was great fun when I first moved here but now I have been 8 years and it gets harder and harder to live here every year but I guess two years could be fun.

 

[joeteixido]

I was born on this rollercoaster and spent most of my life riding it. Not an expat and my goal has been, since day one, to offer an indigenous perspective of life (as some of us balding argies go through it) and also try to grasp reality through your experiences and our cultural differences.
As I stated before, this is going to get much worse before it gets better. We are experiencing a more perverse "corralito". This whole thing might slide into a grinding halt in the following months. Sincerely hope I am mistaken and facts will prove me wrong.

I still remember running out of cash, most groceries stores closing and barricading and/or running out of goods to sell or prices to work with. I remember looking out the window at the grocery store across the street and wondering what were my options if bad came to worse. My youngest son was just a couple of months old, his older brother just 4 years old.
When the economy collapsed we had already gone through all our savings, hoping things would improve, but they didn't. It was an economic and psychological war of attrition. Banks took our coin and simply closed their doors, left us to fend for ourselves.

Pray we're not headed towards something worse this time. But I say this is not a panorama where you bring your family into hoping it's a good employement move or an "experience".
18k might just mean nothing in two days time if the banks decide not to open following a weekend. Not a pesimist, just someone who was there and had to go through that.

I apologize now. Bad, bad memories that bring tears to my eyes.

Oh man this gaveme the goosebumps... this is exactly the scenario I'm having nightmares about. I got a baby boy coming in October and 2 girls under 10.

Just trying to put myself in Iznogud shoes and I have no idea what to do. Not trying to hijack or derail the thread, but if you (Iznogud) don't mind, would you share a few tips on how we should prepare for something like that? Should I start stocking on non-perishables? What about the water supply and power? You had those?

I'm sorry man, not trying to make you re-live this all over, but I think your experience means a lot IF this furball finally gets flushed down the pipe.

 

[Iznogud]

I'll tell you this before you find out by yourself and take it as good advice.
To me it ain't.
There's a guy who wrote a blog and published a book. His internet handle is FerFAL if I remember correctly. I completely disagree with his apocalyptic perspective, but the fact remains that a bunch of survivalists out there (abroad and not familiar with our culture) idolysed his views and he became quite well known in those circles.

I was also there, my mind focused more on daily realities and difficulties. The burden of family and children also different of those of a younger fellow. Less time for fantasies and more for real worries.
I know from earlier dates and possiibly a better angle and less or different motivation, many or most of this guy's "gurus". They are/were part of my large entourage way before he discovered them. He did so "after the facts" while building his internet survalist persona, I entered that cercle some 5-7 years before the crisis while studying to become a shooting/CCW instructor.

Let me state that guns were of no use, no part of the problem or the solution back in 2001. That is is my main grudge against this self proclaimed "survivor". What he preaches is wrong, irresponsible and dangerous not to mention a crock of sheit.

I rather not go into details in writing no to alarm those who might land on it by accident and without proper introduction and context.

Met a couple of you already, I'm easy, a coke, coffee or similar and some conversation will do my day.

 

[sleslie23]

FerFal, or whatever his name is, is definitely on the extreme side. He has a lot of videos on YouTube that tell you how to survive the Zombie Apocalypse. The survivalist mentality has always fascinated me.

On the less extreme side, if you are truly worried about being in a situation like Izno describes above, just stock up on a few weeks worth of rice, canned beans, and other non perishables. As long as there continues to be water and gas you'll be fine. Also, maybe keep a stash of pesos in your house.

Other than that, there isn't much you can do. If and when the Zombie Apocalypse comes, we're all pretty much screwed. Even the survivalists.

 

[joeteixido]

Thanks iznogud, I hope I didn't come across too blunt by asking you that.

As sleslie23 says the "Preper" or "survivalist" mentality is always fascinating, specially those that resort to guns as the prime mean of survival. This guy is way out there as I just saw in his blog.

I don't mean to make "prepping" my way of life, just buying time until we can do something. Maybe a week or two worth of non perishables/water would be enough until I can trigger some kind of EXFIL.

Ditto on the zombie apocalypse lol!.

 

[Iznogud]

Joe, it would be my pleasure to assist you in any way I may.

This fantascious dude has since moved to the UK, where he might be able to continue to lure those gullible and willing. He was a nobody before 2001, he's a dangerous buffoon in my book since.

Society was amazinly stoic and well behaved in those terrible days. Exhausted too.

I would definitely NOT hold onto a stash of pesos. Peso won't cut it when there's no restocking prices. Greenbacks are part of our psyche, not gold, silver, definitely no checks or jewelry of any kind. Those are mostly good in the movies or books. Reality proved otherwise.

Maybe "fortified" or secure living quarters. Something not attractive to vandals or looters. Not sure if they are a real threat but I assure you that it will let you sleep better at night, specially around a new born baby. You'll need all the sleep you can get. My son was born on Xmas Eve, that summer was endless.

I remember streets with no lighting at night, also there was one summer when a large section of the city had no power for 10+ days. That happened around Congreso and Boedo.
No power means also no water in most cases and food and some drugs going to waste, no phones. Means many grocery stores closed and no easy food supply or distribution.

Lots of old and sick isolated and helpless in their homes.