Xmas Rental Nightmare - Advice Please - Where To From Here ?

[Juanito]

Eric - something tells me you have ''been here before''... Thank you for your words of wisdom - and like yourself, I have started to have serious doubts also. Rest assured we are NOT going to allow ourselves to be just thrown out in the street with 5 minutes notice for the convenience of these mysterious holidaymakers from Brazil... As for that ''level headed confrontation'' - that is going to be on Monday when I go with my partner to pay the rent and get our receipt (which we normally do around this time each month). I will start off nice - but then I will get to the issues - the fact that we would NOT have taken the apartment without the assurance we were given that we could renew as many times as we wanted ''without hassle'' and that right now is the WORST time of the year to be looking for a new apartment, we DON'T have anything to move to yet, we both work 20 hour days sometimes and my partner would probably LOSE HER JOB if she had to take a few weeks off right now just to shift apartment - something we did not plan on because were were assured that we would NOT need to...

After that we will bring up (as needed) the fact that reporting them to afip is an option, that there is a website where we will be mentioning both THEM and their rental company by name (it will be done right here in fact) that will definitely get their names ''out there'' in the wrong sort of way - and that since they have 20,000 pesos of our money that equates to more than 3 months rent - so if necessary and considering the vile weather and how utterly inconvenient it is to us to move at this time it might just be necessary for us to stay 3.5 months more than the end date of 11th January...

At any rate - lets see how the conversation goes on Monday and what (concrete) comes out of it - I was just ''thinking aloud'' then

 

[EricLovesBA]

Best of luck and I wish you and your wife a great holiday season. Set aside some space and time to really forget about all this and enjoy yourselves!

 

[Juanito]

I intend to - no matter what Yule is yule - and some good English fare (my wife makes the most amazing beef wellington now - ) and of course some mulled wine and cider - the local cider is not exactly scrumpy but its extremely nice - and cheap too Its what we say back home, ''don't let the bastards get you down''

 

[Juanito]

Here's the latest update guys - NO solution - the husband basically told us a lot of BS - the woman? She still wants us OUT (in the middle of this heatwave!) on the first day after the 11th of January (the 6 month contract runs out on the 11th of January and of course the agreement we had with this bitch (pardon my language, but I cannot tolerate liars or people who have no honour - and she fits both of these descriptions) was only verbal - and because of that apparently we have no rights at all...

My partner is almost beside herself - desperately calling around today (her first day with some time and not having to work about 20 hours) hoping we can get a new apartment organized with a landlord or landlady who is like us - someone with some honour and some decency who will keep their word and when they say we can stay long term and renew our contract as many times as we want actually ALLOW US TO DO SO...

Of course - this has been a learning experience - from now on I will assume any landlord or landlady here is a liar and I will make sure anything agreed is written down in black and white in the contract - but Gods, what a way to finish off the year and what a ''wonderful'' disaster to start the new year with.

Thought I would let you all know the end result. The husband is much older than the wife - and its easy to see that ex judge and famous lawyer or not, well, you can see who wears the pants in that relationship. Apparently the apartment is really his anyway - for legal/tax reasons he had it signed over into her name - in fact, it sounds like she was able to convince him to sign over several of his apartments to her because whilst they have been together for years apparently they are not legally married - whatever...

Okay - if anyone DOES know of a decent landlord or landlady renting a nice 2 or 3 bedroom apartment here in Recoleta or close by PLEASE send me a PM - I really don't need this stress - we have rented here in Buenos Aires for 4 years now - the first landlord was not very impressive but we were model tenants for him and stayed in that apartment for more than 3 years - and we have rented here in this apartment for nearly 6 months - we pay our rent on time, we pay our bills, we treat the place like our own and always leave the apartment in a better condition than we found it. In the apartment where we were before I actually ended up paying out of my own pocket for many repairs and maintenance which was actually the responsibility of the owner but getting him to pay for anything was a bit like getting blood out of a stone...

As a community service - the moment we have a new apartment secured - I promise to name the husband and the landlady from hell - because I am sure that once their brazilian guests have come and gone (for their annual two week holiday here) that they will want to rent the apartment out again - probably for considerably more money too - and that once again, more innocent victims like myself and my partner will be caught - at least one thing I can do here is save someone else the grief we are going through now and expose a pretty disgusting landlady so that everybody knows about her and gives her a wide berth...

 

[Juanito]

PS I have to mention this one last point - so you all can try to judge/figure out ''what the heck'' - she (my partner) reminded me today over breakfast how the landlady at the time actually SAID to her (and me) ''if you want, we go to the public notary now to change the agreement and make it legal so that the clause about the brazilians is removed and the contract states that the apartment is yours for two years or as long as you want - renewable every 6 months'' - yes, I know, now I have posted this post scriptum you're all going to think we are the idiots and got what we deserve. I guess you have to understand it from my point of view. My grandfather back home was a millionaire businessman who never signed a contract in his life - he SHOOK HANDS, gave his word, and that was that. My mother in her time was the top real estate woman in the state - and she operated the same way. I am older (and some might say not the wiser for it) but I have lived my life the same way as well - and I am not saying this is the ''first time'' I have ever been screwed over but by and large, back home at least, most of the time this way of working has been respected by others and I haven't had a problem. I guess that now I am going to be officially Argentine within days I have to now learn to adapt to very different conditions and ways of doing things. A handshake and the word of the person is NOT enough down here - and I guess I have the hell of next month that we will both go through to be a constant reminder to me of this - assuming we survive it all in these terrible conditions lol I know that even saying this is going to make some of you raise eyebrows and ask ''is this guy for real or what?'' but in all honesty, the word HONOUR actually has some meaning to me - and its the way I have always tried to live my life. I still have a hard time dealing with and trying to understand those I encounter in this life who do not think in the same terms... Anyway, hope you are all having a better Yuletide season than we are, John.

 

[Juanito]

I might ask a quick question here guys - is this NORMAL? I paid 21,000 pesos in cash to the rental office to get IN to this apartment - I understood that was because I was ''sin garantia'' and this was like security or whatever - my partner has just explained to me now that the ONLY part of that I am likely to see again is *maybe* the one month rent in advance component that was in there (I have been paying 6,500 pesos per month in this place). I have lived in a lot of countries and paid rent in a lot of countries - but seeing as the rental company FAILED to give us what we asked for - and were promised also by the owner (a long term rental we could renew every six months ''without problems'') I really don't understand how they get to pocket (or what I would call *steal* ) that much of MY money for doing absolutely nothing - and actually, NOT giving me as the customer what I paid for... Is this ''standard practice'' here in Argentina? As you can probably tell although I have been here 4 years this is my second only rental - the first one lasted for more than 3 years... To me it looks very much like ''legalized robbery''...

 

[French jurist]

Crossing my fingers that you'll get your (huge? if I recall) security deposit back. But if you do the right things, you should get it back.

My offer still stands to take a look at the contract.

Does your apartment have subsidies for the electricity bill? If yes, I'd call Edenor/Edesud to renounce to those subsidies (as an appetizer to the mess you can create)

 

[nikad]

21000$ sounds to me like the standard amount of money you need to enter a 2 year lease: 1 month security deposit, 1 month rent in advance, 2 months real estate commission. I assume you will only get back the security deposit... The amount of money your RE agents got is a robbery and they should reimburse you because you never got to renew your lease past the first 6 month period. You should ask them for half the money back, or you will make it public everywhere, along with the landlord´s name, etc and you will also report it to AFIP - did you get an invoice with VAT for all of this " commission" ?

 

[Gaucho_ec]

Sorry to hear that, it looked like it would end up bad though.

As Nikad said, that's normal for a 2 year lease. If you didn't get 2 years as promised (would be better signed) by the agency, I'd ask for part of the commission back.
You'd get back all the deposit money as long the apartment is in same shape as you received it. Owner has about 20 days to check apartment after you leave before giving it back. The 1 month "anticipo" usually means you don't pay the last one.

REALLY try to get the garantía, won't get anything similar without it. You were basically paying the value of a 2 year 2BR (w/o furniture) contract rent at 6500 with everything included in Recoleta. Plus you'll get the legal 2yr contract where the legal advantages for you will be 10 times the ones you get on a short term one.

About getting promise of "never ending rent", don't fall for it. It's fantasy...unless you get to sign some kind of "usufructo" (you get the benefit to use the apartment the rest of your life and owner gets it back when you die) that of course is another fantasy, as its usually only done between family members.

 

[French jurist]

Owner has about 20 days to check apartment after you leave before giving it back.

Never heard about that (could be true).

My advice would be:
- Give the keys back 1 day before you are supposed to leave the apartment to make the inspection with the owner
- If you don't agree with the owner, then you can say ---> OK, let's call in an escribano who will determine the condition of the apartment, etc. The escribano fees are splitted 50/50 between both of us (that's the law for 2 years contracts, my guess, even if I'm not sure, is that it could apply to temporary rentals too).
- Then the owner gives you back the security deposit, or not. If not, change the locks, send a carta documento, etc.


Unfortunately, we don't have enough details to give precise advices