Yellow Fever vaccination.

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John Street show me your facts for the last 2000 years that man lived only to 50 years . Please show us all your statistics I for one will be very interested.
In many Greek villages away from western medicine and foods 100 years old is common and this has been the case for thousands of years except in periods of wars ie . the 1st and second world war. Many so called statistics are skewered due to the war factor which lowers life expectancy.

I have a grandmother who is 97 and in excellent health and she has never had a vaccine or eaten a canned food.

The worlds oldest people live in isolated communities ie Hunza , Penan and many tribes of Asia.

Its a myth that tribal people in western societies live better now. Their rates of obesity and ill health are appalling by all standards.

I suggest John Street that you .

1. Read
2. Inform
3. Write
 
pericles said:
John Street show me your facts for the last 2000 years that man lived only to 50 years .
5,000 years. 40-45 years. Do you read Danish?

And I don't see your answers to my questions.

How do you then explain that you assume Aussie aborigins to live for much longer on the same stone age diet?

At what age?

- and why don't you read the text you provide links to?
 
pericles said:
... I have a grandmother who is 97 and in excellent health and she has never had a vaccine or eaten a canned food.
My mother's older brother died at the age of 2 in 1927 and he has never had a vaccine or ate a canned food.
 
Why is the cancer killing 1 in 3 people now? 50 years ago the rate was one in 35 people .
1 in 3? Well, more like 1 in 8. Whatever your numbers, there are millions of possible factors, how do you reduce it just to vaccines? Why are more women acting in pornographic movies compared to fifty years ago? Vaccines?

Cancer death rates are actually declining in many developed countries now thanks to, medical treatment. They are conversely increasing in the developing world due to declines in child mortality and deaths due to infectious diseases (thanks to, you guessed it, modern medicine).
How come there have been an explosion of diseases in the last 50 years ie, aids, autism, ms, lupus, sudden infant death syndrome, shaken baby syndrome and 100s of new diseases with strange names.
100s of diseases. Really? Source? Check John's response. Also humans are moving into habitats they have not historically had contact with.
If vaccine were good for us people would be living healthier but the facts show they are living less healthy than ever before with an array of medical problems.
Core global health indicators have shown a steady improvement over the period you talk about.
The Amish communities and primitive communities have no autism and very low rates of diseases . Does this not peak your interest to know why.
This myth started with a piece of 'journalism' by Dan Olmsted. The dubious claims and methodology in this piece of reportage have been demonstrated in numerous articles. The Amish do vaccinate in significant numbers and do have reported cases of autism. They also tend to be not quite so virulent in their rejection of modern science and medicine when they are seriously ill (I'm sure Pericles would take a more principled stand).
The most important factor in good health is clean water ( no fluoride or chlorine please) fresh unaderated food grown without pesticides and low stress levels.
The biggest impact on health indicators was made by the discovery of disease vectors, the introduction of hygienic practices and vaccines.
I find it strange that Aborigines the original inhabitants of Australia have one of the worlds highest death rate
So do I, mainly because it's untrue. Aboriginal age standardised death rates are around 12 per 1000 which would rank behind around 60 nations worldwide (some with nearly three times this figure) so hardly some of the highest in the world.
and most men do not reach even 50.
Life expectancy for male aboriginals in Australia is 67 years.
Western culture and diet has decimated their culture and their health with junk food devoid of all vitamins and vaccines being handed out like candy.
Undoubtedly introduced diet, and social factors are largely responsible for the gap with white Australia but you slip vaccines in there so easily. Where is the data about vaccines being responsible? And why are they having more of an adverse affect on the Aboriginal population than they are on the rest of the Australian population?
If modern society and medicine was beneficial certainly they would have better heath than they have now . Diabetes, Obesity, cancer, Heart disease are endemic in their communities.
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/publications/corporate/sr1/summary.asp
Again, health indicators for Australia as a whole and for Aboriginal Australia have improved over the period you talk about (the last 50 years).
Originally the Aborigines lived on raw foods and had incredible health with long life spans and agile healthy physiques. This culture like many others that have fallen for the western medicine trap are worse off than ever.
I'm with John on that one. I know of fossil studies that have found pre-contact hunter gatherers lived to about 40-45 years maximum, I know of no study that makes the claims you are making.

And yet you still expect us to just trust you on this hunch you have about vaccines?
 
Moxon you are entitled to your beliefs but mine are based on 1000s of hours of study and also 3 years of medical school . Lets start with regards to life expectancy of Aboriginal males it is certainly not 67 as quoted by you it is in the low 50s on all indicators.

Please send me your facts so I can verify them. I believe that you are using the New system from the Australian Bureau of Statistics which has been heavily criticised and confirmed by many independent analysts to be flawed

Aboriginal people can expect to live up to twenty years less than non-Indigenous Australians. Indigenous life expectancy is so low because Aboriginal health standards in Australia are now so bad that 45% of Aboriginal men and 34% of women die before the age of 45. 71% die before they reach the age of 65.

According to the United Nations, the quality of life of Aboriginal people is the second worst of the planet.

Back to the topic of vaccines and connection to disease their are numerous studies that show this . Your reference to the Amish being vaccinated and autism says it all. Unvaccinated people have shown to have very low or no autism .
There is a link that we cannot deny between vaccination and autism fullstop.
I can post 100s of independent studies for your interest.

Moxon I have three questions for you

Why is cancer killing one in three people today when over 100 years ago it killed very few?

Why the sudden increase of over 3000 percent in Autism a disease you are not born with ?

Why the tremendous increase in asthma, heart diseases. Now heart disease is a very rare natural condition and now is a leading cause of death in western societies ?

Are these connected to mass vaccination and the poisoning of the human body through high carbohydrate diets and foods devoid of life force.

The heart is the strongest muscle in the body and it takes an extreme amount of poison or abuse to impair its functioning. Tobacco, liquor, drugs, cola drinks, poison preservatives in foods and poison spray on farm produce, in addition to the incompatible, devitalized foods are some of the other poisons that corrode the tissues of the heart as well as every cell in the body. Arteriosclerosis, which accompanies about half of the heart deaths, is also a disease which is induced by body poisoning, over-eating of incompatible, devitalized foods and depleting habits.

And Moxon the worlds oldest woman Sakhan Dosova has never been vaccinated and claims to not even taken a medicine pill . She is 130 years of age and still lives . Click the link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...erson-world-set-celebrate-130th-birthday.html
 
Pericles, if you went to medical school, perhaps you could offer something other than anecdotal evidence, any serious scientific studies, doctors, that support your point of view, thanks.
 
pericles said:
Moxon you are entitled to your beliefs but mine are based on 1000s of hours of study and also 3 years of medical school .
In which case you simply present peer reviewed articles (including article ID) from highly esteemed 'The Lancet' , "New England Medical Journal' and similar.

pericles said:
In regards to life expectancy of Aboriginal males it is certainly not 67 and is in the low 50s on all indicators.

Again you simply present peer reviewed articles from highly esteemed e.g. 'The Lancet' and "New England Medical Journal' or similar, no sweat.

You may start by reading the link you provided yourself.

"In the US this gap has been progressively reduced from 13 years to 3 years in recent decades, and in New Zealand it has been reduced to 5-6 years.".

The problem is not modern medicine, including vaccination, but its application in parts of Australia, in your link: Queensland.

Vaccination is not recent, but in simple forms dates back some two thousand years, in Europa to the mid/late eighteenth century; vaccination was descibed scientifically to the Royal Society sometime in the first third of the eighteenth century and inoculation against smallpox has been used in France and England since about 1770.

Smallpox has a death rate in the 15-30% range and at least 200 million lives have have been saved by smallpox vaccine alone.

pericles said:
Why is cancer killing one in three people today when over 100 years ago it killed very few?
You already have got the answer to this. Half or more of the mortal cancer cases shows at ages above 70 years. When the average life expectancy was below that age, death had other causes.

If you have attended medical school for two trimesters you have had Med.Hist. 102, which demonstrates that each time you eradicate a disease as the cause of death, another one "takes it place", simply because there is a larger time and/or cause threshold for the new "winner".

pericles said:
... the worlds oldest woman Sakhan Dosova has never been vaccinated and claims to not even taken a medicine pill . She is 130 years of age and still lives . Click the link
My mother's older brother died at the age of 2 in 1927 and he has never had a vaccine or ate a canned food.

My mother's other brother live is still alive at 92 and as a chief on numerous ships he had an untold number of vaccinations and ate a lot of tinned food, but never fish, after the age of 17.

Fish! Fish is the real cause of death!!! :D:D

Didn't they teach you anything about scientific method during your three years in med.school?
 
Smallpox has a death rate in the 15-30% range and at least 200 million lives have have been saved by smallpox vaccine alone. This is a quote by John St and gives me a chance to dispell this outrageous myth. And also John Street Cancer is killing our children and very young children why is this happening now ?
I will be very happy to debate this with him and any other topics in Buenos Aires.

Smallpox is an infectious viral disease, which was evident for centuries in places with poor sanitation, poverty, and malnutrition.
The infectious agent was Orthopox variola.
By the end of the 18th century the disease was following the natural course burning itself out on the human population, confining itself to those with the lowest immune capabilities.
Smallpox was the first disease for which vaccination was tried. It all started with Edward Jenner at the end of the 1700s.
The story that we find in 99% of standard references is that Jenner's vaccine saved the world from the dread smallpox, which had plagued the human race for centuries. Mass inoculation programs were instituted in many countries worldwide, usually backed by the government. The vaccine supposedly immunized the people for life.

If the legend starts to sound a little whitewashed, there's a reason why. So let's start at the beginning.
Edward Jenner as you may remember, was the English "physician" in the late 1700s who took note of an old superstition that milk-maids who got a mild disease known as cowpox supposedly didn't get smallpox. As an experiment, Jenner came up with the idea of drawing serum from an infected cowpox pustule on the skin of an infected milkmaid.

He then injected the infected pus into a perfectly healthy person, on the theory that contact with this "milder" disease would allow the subject to develop immunity to the more deadly smallpox.
Many of Jenner's own contemporaries were shocked at how easily the scientific community was taken in by this auteur.

Walter Hadwen MD, celebrated English surgeon, author, and medical scholar of 100 years ago, we find a version of the Jenner story that is not so set in bronze as most of what we read today. Hadwen points out a few cracks in Jenner's pedestal.

Jenner was no physician. He never passed a medical exam in his life, completed any course of medical study, or received a diploma from any medical school.
Jenner bought his medical degree for £15 from St Andrew's College in Scotland, which he never attended.Jenner "tested" his theory on one patient, and then immediately claimed that he had "immunized" the patient against smallpox for life. Jenner also claimed that the vaccine would work universally. That's it! No controlled clinical trials, no years of research, nothing! One patient!
With no proof whatsoever, and a sample size of one, Jenner tricked the entire medical profession, then and now, into pretending that cowpox was smallpox in cows - a total scientific inaccuracy. And then he sold the idea that his vaccine was the cure.Not long after his "breakthrough," Jenner's repeated petitions to the House of Commons struck gold. It finally dawned on the English government how millions of pounds sterling could be moved around by passing a law making the new smallpox vaccine compulsory. Jenner was promptly awarded the enormous sum of £30,000 by British Parliament and suddenly this uneducated poseur was a revered scientist!

Legitimate scientists of Jenner's day decried the smallpox vaccine from the start. Bechamp, Hadwen, Wallace, and others thought it appalling that the most basic facts concerning the distinction between cowpox and smallpox were simply never discussed. If the original axioms of vaccination were true, how could one disease vector immunize against a completely separate disease? This was the question that was never asked, and is still ignored today.
Watch closely: the two diseases - cowpox and smallpox - are completely distinct conditions. Hadwen explains:
"What is cow-pox? It is a disease which occurs on the teats of cows; it only occurs when they are in milk; only in one part of the body, and naturally only in the female animal; it results in an ugly chancre; and is not infectious.
Small-pox, on the other hand, is not limited to the female sex as is cow-pox, nor to one portion of the body; it presents different physical signs, and, furthermore, is tremendously infectious, and the course and symptoms of the two diseases are totally different. Therefore there is no analogy between the two.
Hadwen wrote this 100 years ago, but his objections are still valid. Doing a taxonomic check today in a standard index of viruses from a National Institutes of Health database readily points out that cowpox is caused by a virus called Orthopox vaccinia and smallpox is caused by a virus called Orthopox variola. These two viruses have different sizes, genetic sequences, and characteristics. To pretend that cows get a version of smallpox called cowpox is bizarre enough - but then to say that people who get the same disease are immune to smallpox is simply fantasy.

How Was The Smallpox Vaccine Made?
From an original monograph by Dr Walter Hadwen, here is an account of how smallpox vaccine was first made:
1. A 3 month old calf was tied down on its side.
2. 30 - 50 one inch incisions were made in its stomach
3. Smallpox pus rubbed into each incision
4. Calf is returned to its pen, restrained so as to be unble to lick the sores
5. Wait one week.
6. Smallpox pustules form
7. Calf strapped down again
8. Encrusted pus is scraped off each sore and the remaining blood, lymph,and pus is then drained out.
9. It is placed in a crucible and heated, adding glycerine as a binder
10. Mixed and strained to remove hair and dead flesh.
11. Poured into tubes as sold as pure calf lymph - or smallpox vaccine.

Very scientific. This formula was used for decades, even up to modern times, until it was replaced by Dryvax, which today employs far more sophisticated science: Dryvax is cultured on the cells of an aborted human fetus!!!!!

By 1853, Parliament began passing laws to make the untested vaccine compulsory throughout the British empire. Other countries of Europe followed suit.
Once the economic implications of compulsory vaccinations were realized, few dared to disagree. Then as now, the media were controlled by the vaccine manufacturers and the government, who stood to make huge money from the sale of these spurious vaccines. Hadwen put it like this:
"... so strong is the effect of authority, custom, and endowment, and so prone are people to save themselves the trouble of personal investigation by the simple process of accepting the decisions of "the majority" ... When once an error is accepted by a profession corporately and endowed by Government, to uproot it becomes a herculean task.
And this is how mass immunizations get started. Once the money machine started rolling, doctors who questioned the research were ignored. Despite the lack of scientific validation and hundreds of thousands of documented vaccine deaths, compulsory smallpox vaccination lasted for 120 years! The US was the last holdout, finally giving it up in 1971.

Prussian Roulette
Hadwen provides a rare window into the medical research of a century ago, one that has not received the usual whitewash. He tells the amazing story about Prussia, the most vaccinated country in Europe during the 1800s - also the country that kept the best records. Hadwen had access to these medical records before the media had the sense to suppress them. Here's what they showed:
It happened that Prussia passed a mandatory vaccination law in 1834 for smallpox. The law provided that every infant be vaccinated, and then revaccinated when starting school. After graduation the child had to be vaccinated again, and then once more upon entering the Army!
And all healthy males had to go into the Army. Anyone who refused the vaccination was to be "held down and vaccinated by force; and so thoroughly was it done that he was vaccinated in ten places on each arm.
OK, so we get the idea that almost 100% of Prussians got Jenner's smallpox vaccine. So what happened in Prussia 35 years after this vaccination law? A smallpox epidemic which killed "124,978 of her vaccinated and re-vaccinated citizens after thirty-five years of compulsory vaccination!
How about England?
A compulsory "immunization" program was set up in England in 1853 using Jenner's methods. Before that time, the highest number of deaths in a 2 year period in England from smallpox was about 2000.
Results of this "immunization"

YearDeaths1857-9 14,244
1863-5 20,059
There have been many smallpox vaccination tragedies mostly in poor societies . The most famous case was in the Phillipines in the 1920s.

After WWI, there was a lot of surplus smallpox vaccine that didn't get used
When the U.S. mandated a mass smallpox vaccination program in the Philippines in 1917, some 25 million shots were given to those people. 163,000 Filipinos came down with the disease after the vaccination, and 75,339 Filipinos died from it, quadrupling the death rate prior to the inoculation program.
Some facts below

smallpox has mostly disappeared worldwide since 1977
most deaths from smallpox since 1970 have been from the vaccine
smallpox vaccine killed thousands in England, France, Prussia, and the Philippines
the sham premise of Jenner is still widely held
smallpox vaccine historically has killed the most people of any vaccine ever invented
the vaccine is for a completely different disease - a disease of cows
the vaccine does not confer immunity to smallpox
the reason that our country and every other country in the world stopped vaccinating was that the vaccine not only did not work, but was causing the disease and other pathological and fatal side effects
 
Pericles, this is very interesting and I thank you for posting it. One aspect still puzzles me, though: if the vaccine be for an entirely different disease, how can it be blamed for deaths from smallpox? Do your sources aver that a vaccine made from cowpox actually causes smallpox?
 
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