YPF Nationalized

[nicoenarg]

Sorry, didn't realize that the thread was about your musings on the direction of the country, whatever that might mean. I guess i was thrown by the fact that the title of the thread was "YPF Nationalized" and that almost every other thread in this forum is about 'the direction of the country' as viewed from the eyes of a group of people who spend their entire days on this forum and have little understanding of the world outside of that. Stupid me for thinking that this particular thread would be about something slightly different. I guess it is my fault for intruding into your little world of Argentina loathing therapy.

As for my assumptions on what you are thinking, given what you have written on this forum I can only assume that you don't.

P.S. You don't have a clue what a strawman argument even is.

Wow, you are a bitter person. But this is what the original post said:

After months of speculation, Cristina finally pulled the trigger and nationalized YPF.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1465449-expropiacion-de-ypf

Seems to me this will further isolate Argentina from foreign investment opportunities, not to mention the impact it will have with their relationship with Spain.

See? It helps to read the whole thing and not make assumptions based on the title. The title "YPF Nationalized" does not define the topic of the whole thread. It is just stating a fact.

I am trying to be as civil as possible here so I am going to ignore the rest of your post.

 

[KarlaBA]

Wow, you are a bitter person. ....I am trying to be as civil as possible.....

I'm glad to hear you are taking the high road now that you have lost on the low road.

If you go back and read my posts from the beginning, any fool can see that it was you in particular who singled me out to throw strawman arguments at. My first post was about the fact that not all nationalizations are bad decisions. And of course i hit a nerve when i mentioned KSA in a list of nations, as you are an expert on KSA; and therefore thought you should chime in with all your great wisdom about KSA and how sh*tty it is from your expat perspective of living there a few years. You might think that gives you special insight, but it does not. Some of us have spent years working in KSA at senior levels. Some of us have worked in the petroleum industry for many years. I suppose when you are challenged on your 'great wisdom' then that must be condescension. I can tell from your words that you are quite young - all cocksure of yourself and your simplistic beliefs.

 

[nicoenarg]

I'm glad to hear you are taking the high road now that you have lost on the low road.

I was not aware that I was competing. But hey, whatever floats your boat. You can wallow in your "victory" that apprently only you care about, with all your assumptions. Oh and please say hello to King Abdullah for me.

 

[scottlyon]

Get a room already you two!

I certainly see Karla's point with a democratically appointed government bucking the trend of being in debt to global banks and trying to be self-sustainable with imports and exports being gravy rather than lifeblood. A refreshing outlook on these boards and one I enjoyed reading about.

I also see Nico's point of it appearing mad to observers from other countries and share the sentiment that its unlikely to succeed in its current form. I don't mind the lampooning of the head of state as that comes with the job, as expat forums go this is quite timid.

If we could release some of the pressure from the words you are each using we might be able to have an interesting conversation (or at lease watch one) which might bring out solutions or at least questions which will enrich our differing understandings of it all.

 

[nicoenarg]

Get a room already you two!

I think I'll pass.

 

[MrHyde]

You all are too pesimistic, and wrong!!... UE is not Spain, many countrys from UE have inverstiments here... and each company who have them doesnt gonna lose their comerce and finances here only just for supporting a spanish company!!... UE its union, BUT the rule "1 for all, and all for one" doesnt applys in this case at least. I repeat each country and each company (public o private) defends their own interestings in 1st case. The relationship with spain could get hard, and if them take hard politics with us as responce of it, then we will take more hard politics with them as a contra ofensive. I know we both could finish boump after this. But the risk worth it, cause we are defending our rights on handle our own petroleoum recerves and companys, those wich was taked in the past taking advantage of the bad decisions of incompetent Argentine politicians in previous decades. After hundreds of solidarity aid and food ships sent to Spain from here when they was hungry and needing help.

 

[nicoenarg]

You all are too pesimistic, and wrong!!... UE is not Spain, many countrys from UE have inverstiments here... and each company who have them doesnt gonna lose their comerce and finances here only just for supporting a spanish company!!... UE its union, BUT the rule "1 for all, and all for one" doesnt applys in this case at least. I repeat each country and each company (public o private) defends their own interestings in 1st case. The relationship with spain could get hard, and if them take hard politics with us as responce of it, then we will take more hard politics with them as a contra ofensive. I know we both could finish boump after this. But the risk worth it, cause we are defending our rights on handle our own petroleoum recerves and companys, those wich was taked in the past taking advantage of the bad decisions of incompetent Argentine politicians in previous decades. After hundreds of solidarity aid and food ships sent to Spain from here when they was hungry and needing help.

It would help if your post wasn't all in bold.

No one is saying that all of EU businesses are going to up and run. And I will also add this to the discussion. If CFK had sat down with the Repsol management and discussed taking over YPF through proper channels (since Repsol bought it through proper channels, its not their fault the governments here are always incompetent) then we'd be having a completely different discussion, or maybe no discussion at all.

It is specifically the forced takeover that is dangerous. YPF was created by the government of Argentina, fine. Then the government of Argentina decided to sell it. If that government was corrupt, that is the problem Argentines need to worry about, not Repsol. Repsol bought the company fair and square according to the terms, after negotiations. Just because the Argentine government established the company, does not give them the right to snatch it back whenever the hell they want. They should have sat down and discussed and negotiated. If Repsol didn't want to sell, that should have been that. The dogs in the pink house should have backed off.

As for whether EU will take action or not. And whether Argentina is in a position to bite back. Well, yes to the first and no freakin' way to the second. EU is important to Argentina, not the other way around. EU happens to be Argentina's 2nd biggest trade partner with a trade surplus favoring Argentina. I think Argentina stands to lose a lot here.

Oh by the way, the EU is Argentina's biggest investor. You should never bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[puvenlee]

i think it's totally legal to nationalize YPF.

 

[YanquiGallego]

I forsee that the new management of YPF in Argentina will be entirely buddy-buddy Kirchniristas who do not know the first thing about managing a company of this nature and the company will be in shambles, much like happened when Aerolineas was nationalized.

Many of its tried and true top airline executives who truly knew the airline business are now working in Spain at Iberia and in Mexico City for Aeromexico because the K government put in its Cristina worshipping goons who did not know the first thing about running an airline.

Today, Aerolineas is arguably among the worst airlines in Latam, in terms of everything: revenue, service, and efficiency, it is not affiliated with any major global airline alliance because of its intense government control, and is losing money by the second.

Independant of this, the government has decided pompously that they are capacitated to run YPF.

Bienvenido al futuro Argentinos y Argentinas.

 

[ElQueso]

Bienvenido al futuro Argentinos y Argentinas.

O bienvenidos al pasado repetido en el fututo...

I used to be in the oil business, on the drilling side. And you're absolutely correct in what you say.

Usually poor countries didn't have enough experience to know how to drill or where to drill or manage production when the well was drilled. We came in with the rigs that worked with the local oil companies if they existed, or with foreign (US, UK, etc) oil companies who had the lease. The rigs were managed by expats with the majority of the labor supplied by locals.

I can't imagine how Argentina plans on doing its own stuff.

At least so far, they are only nationalizing the oil company YPF and kicking companies off the oil leases. In many places (Venezuela, for example) the actual equipment of foreign drilling and production companies was nationalized because they needed the equipment to actually explore and produce.

Production may not be such a problem equipment-wise here with YPF being nationalized, but I wonder about exploration equipment, which is very expensive...