YPF Nationalized

[dr__dawggy]

i think it's totally legal to nationalize YPF.

Not all things that are "lawful" are wise.

If the law of the land permits its government to take over privately held businesses owned by foreigners, why would any foreign investor with a brain ever invest in that country again? Why would any foreigner buy land or property in that country? Why wouldn't the country that serves as the headquarters of the company that was nationalized (aka stolen) refuse to do business with the country that took the property of its citizens?

Bad enough that Christina's inflammatory rhetoric has alienated Britain. Now she insults Spain. Ah, well. As long as Venezuela is still a buddy.

 

[ElQueso]

Bad enough that Christina's inflammatory rhetoric has alienated Britain. Now she insults Spain. Ah, well. As long as Venezuela is still a buddy.

Don't forget alienating Brazil and other Mercosur countries where there is supposed to be something resembling free trade...

I think that's worse than what they've done so far toward the UK and even Spain because that's a big local regional one.

 

[ElQueso]

i think it's totally legal to nationalize YPF.

Dawggy, you are absolutely correct in saying that while it might be "legal" it sure as hell ain't right, and causes exactly what you state.

The rule of law does not mean that the government can do anything for which it passes laws for, it means that the government uses its legal system to protect property and personal rights. Something Fascist governments don't understand.

Peron has returned in the guise of someone who wants to be seen as the "sainted" wife of Peron.

Watch out for a lot more authoritarian garbage coming from this regime, at least until everything collapses. Hell, I've even postulated Cretina's doing what she does on purpose (i.e., not as simply stupidity) to break the country down and rebuild it in her own image, so to speak.

 

[nicoenarg]

Dawggy, you are absolutely correct in saying that while it might be "legal" it sure as hell ain't right, and causes exactly what you state.

The rule of law does not mean that the government can do anything for which it passes laws for, it means that the government uses its legal system to protect property and personal rights. Something Fascist governments don't understand.

Peron has returned in the guise of someone who wants to be seen as the "sainted" wife of Peron.

Watch out for a lot more authoritarian garbage coming from this regime, at least until everything collapses. Hell, I've even postulated Cretina's doing what she does on purpose (i.e., not as simply stupidity) to break the country down and rebuild it in her own image, so to speak.

Where I agree with most everything you have written here, I really hope you're wrong about Cristina wanting to destroy the country. I can understand her making dumb decisions and acting like a teenager but it is scary on a whole other level if she's actually going after uprooting all of what is Argentine economy and start building anew.

As for legality. Whether its legal within Argentina to nationalize a company or not is rendered useless when Argentina deals with other countries. Because then international laws pertaining to those matters apply.

My wife and I just came here about 3 months to start a new life. We thought we had left a system of tyranny behind in the middle east and moved to the free world. We're now thinking we weren't very smart in thinking that. My wife is Argentine, and she's sick of her government and the attitudes of people who support this government.

 

[tangobob]

i think it's totally legal to nationalize YPF.

Theft is now legal here?

What next?

 

[davonz]

I find it very interesting with what has happened with YPF and the way its happened.

I can remember reading some articles about the sale of YPF and that before it was sold it was just a big corrupt cash cow for the staff and politicains, that bled money.
Employees where setting up false supply contracts, getting one of their mates to submit a fake invoice for products or services that was never supplied, getting the invoice paid and then splitting the proceeds from the fake invoice.
At the time the gov couldnt run it or control the people who did run it. Has anything changed ?

I understand why argentina wants to control their oil reserves, but i think maybe they are not in a position to do it, or capable of doing it, its more to do with culture here than anything, as soon as you put argentines in charge its going to be everyone for themselves and they will be getting what they can out of the company through the backdoor like before.

Aerolineas is a good example of this. Everyone was blaming the poor service, delays, maintainance etc on the previous owners, however it has now been 4 years since the gov took control, and in my opinion its worse then ever. I stopped flying with them 2 years ago because it had become so much worse. And i have read that it is losing US$2M a day.
They have just announced they are stopping to EZE-AKL-SYD route, because there is no money in it, however LAN flies that route more times a week than Aerolineas and their planes are always full, even though LAN tickets are often 20% or more more expense. So its not that there is no demand for the flights, its that there is no demand for aerolineas flights.

Is this whats in store for YPF ?

 

[ElQueso]

I understand why argentina wants to control their oil reserves, but i think maybe they are not in a position to do it, or capable of doing it, its more to do with culture here than anything, as soon as you put argentines in charge its going to be everyone for themselves and they will be getting what they can out of the company through the backdoor like before.

The funny thing is, Argentina owns the oil reserves (obviously) and control them to an extent. The biggest problem they are pointing to is that the companies who own the leases to explore and produce are not producing enough. The government beats its collective breast and acts as if these big, bad oil companies are just trying to screw the people of Argentina.

But what do they expect when they are, for example, taxed 100% on any sale of oil over $40 a barrel? Argentina could make a killing off of their oil fields if they would open the market up and let companies make a profit as well. Instead, they are depressing the market and then they want to take it over, and they'll almost certainly see even less profits than they are now.

Where I agree with most everything you have written here, I really hope you're wrong about Cristina wanting to destroy the country. I can understand her making dumb decisions and acting like a teenager but it is scary on a whole other level if she's actually going after uprooting all of what is Argentine economy and start building anew.

Nico, I kind of hope I'm wrong too. At least then when the country collapses there will be change in leadership. If I'm right, she will have an iron grip on the country, at least for awhile.

The problem is, this is a typical play out of someone like Marx's play book. I know I'm mixing political thought systems here a bit between communism and fascism, but it is something that could really work if it's done "correctly."

It's one thing to see her making stupid decisions, but they are decisions that can't possibly work over any real time. They are things that are specifically going to make things WORSE for the country. It could be that she is so blinded by wrong theory that she is simply making bad decisions, but I just have to wonder if she is really that stupid?

Kind of like George Bush. A lot of people misunderestimated him (sic) but I think he was far from stupid (I agree with very little of what he did and know he lied to the American people to get into Iraq - I'm not a supporter). It's not very common for a stupid person to actually move into control of a country.

 

[YanquiGallego]

I agree, I don't think anyone can be that dumb to make the types of decisions she is making, and its not just the decisions but the brash, hasty style in which she makes them that add salt to the wound even more, and truly believe that these decisions and this style of decision making will be a HELP to the country.

I honestly think she is trying to create her own Argentina. The worrysome thing is that she has a lot of people who see her as heroic for doing these things.

 

[nicoenarg]

I honestly think she is trying to create her own Argentina. The worrysome thing is that she has a lot of people who see her as heroic for doing these things.

Seeing how people here worship Evita, I am not surprised CFK gets so much support.

 

[dr__dawggy]

Seeing how people here worship Evita, I am not surprised CFK gets so much support.

In other news, inflation in Argentina spirals ahead.

But maybe with enough diversions no one will notice.