YPF Nationalized

[Crema Americana]

There's a lot of propaganda going on by both sides, but especially the government which is trying to get away with something pretty major. Things I've heard...

- YPF was sold by Menem in its best moment to his crony friends... just like Aerolineas, good Argentine companies sold for cents in the 90s. (People who say this also tend to say the Spanish ran Aerolineas into the ground.)
- YPF was run to the ground by corruption, inefficiency, and lack of investment and had to be unloaded in the 90s.
- Repsol was taking advantage of Argentina by producing mostly premium gas and shipping it off to sell overseas, leaving Argentines with a shortage. Also was underproducing on purpose and not exploring.
- Repsol was a decent company and that Argentina had to import due to increased demand in the last few years. (There have been record number of cars sold, and increasing industry is obviously going to increase energy use.)


It'd be nice to get some real facts and understanding of why things went the way they did instead of just pure propaganda from either side.

I found this interesting....
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/17/repsol-argentina-idUSL6E8FH5QZ20120417

Seems it might be true that Repsol didn't see much future in Argentina and as such did scale back exploration and production. This might all have been a game of "I'm going to dump you before you dump me." Or is Repsol just trying to save face? Either way, Cristina got to keep the plasma TV and all his DVDs.

 

[garygrunson]

Outrage is turning to greed as the oil companies line up to "help" run the oil business for Argentina.

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/ar...nies-already-showing-interest-for-ypf-de-vido

 

[nicoenarg]

Outrage is turning to greed as the oil companies line up to "help" run the oil business for Argentina.

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/ar...nies-already-showing-interest-for-ypf-de-vido

Be careful before you declare victory. De Vido is the guy Cristina put in charge of YPF. Do you really think he is being all honest about what is going on.

I would really hold off before I declare, "outrage is turning to greed".

Which is not to say its impossible, I just don't think de Vido is being honest. I would wait for some trustworthy medium to report on that.

 

[MrHyde]

I just gonna say that the matter here its between 1 company from spain and the Argentine state. The rest of invertionist from UE or including spain here in Arg. Have their own interestings and take for sure they will not gonna lose them. It means in other words that.. "wich who recives invertions can be the pig who recives his food, but, those who gives him for eat are specting have their beneficts too!!". So, we are eating from they and they are eating from us TOO with those millions of euro/dollars that they earn with thier invertions here.

 

[scotttswan]

I just gonna say that the matter here its between 1 company from spain and the Argentine state. The rest of invertionist from UE or including spain here in Arg. Have their own interestings and take for sure they will not gonna lose them. It means in other words that.. "wich who recives invertions can be the pig who recives his food, but, those who gives him for eat are specting have their beneficts too!!". So, we are eating from they and they are eating from us TOO with those millions of euro/dollars that they earn with thier invertions here.

you're ignoring the fact that mexico and chile both have interest in repsol/ypf too.

 

[dennisr]

Eskenazi (Petersen Group) may default? They got into YPF with out spending a dime of their own money.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...onfront-repsol-debt-after-ypf-seizure-1-.html

 

[davonz]

But what do they expect when they are, for example, taxed 100% on any sale of oil over $40 a barrel? Argentina could make a killing off of their oil fields if they would open the market up and let companies make a profit as well. Instead, they are depressing the market and then they want to take it over, and they'll almost certainly see even less profits than they are now.

If it is the case of 100% tax on oil over $40 a barrel, i can understand why YPF hasnt been investing in argentina if what the gov says is true.

I have worked for a couple of oil companies, and some discovered deposits than had been drilled would be capped to be developed at a later date as the cost of recovering the oil was higher than what it could be sold for. One well they put the cost at $80 a barrel to recover, so would have to be around $100 to make anything out of it.

 

[garygrunson]

Be careful before you declare victory. De Vido is the guy Cristina put in charge of YPF. Do you really think he is being all honest about what is going on.

I would really hold off before I declare, "outrage is turning to greed".

Which is not to say its impossible, I just don't think de Vido is being honest. I would wait for some trustworthy medium to report on that.

It would make sense, they see an opening and they will quickly jump in to "help". With oil, there are no rules except that it must keep flowing. Besides these oil companies have plenty of capital to "help".

Which is sort of the point. This could be why the US had a pretty tepid response to this story. Can't condemn something when you might find a US oil company gaining all the lost profits. It could happen, or something very similar. Oil corrupts on all sides.

 

[jago25_98]

I have plenty of acquaintances who casually but blindly invest in oil companies.

Plenty of these companies continue to be implicated in wars and shady deals.

Perhaps it might be time for people to think a little when investing in companies for a change. I hope that's what Repsol share holders are thinking right now.

Who knows, perhaps people might look at Nigeria and hold off, leaving reserves for as things are given a chance to slowly adapt to wealth rather than being flooded by cash nobody can resist to thieve.

But then... I'm from the UK and we've recently outlawed bribes even abroad, which makes it interesting for companies like BP right?

So what I'm saying is,
there's always an upside.

Not much faith in Argentina to run YPF well but we'll see. Notice how other companies want to 'help'? Scared off, no chance this is nothing for big oil. Just another pile of crap for the flies to buzz over. Crash dance.

 

[joemama]

This could be the first tremor in the 'Sky is Falling' prediction that many expats have been claiming for years.

Kiss foreign investment goodbye. Kiss any production out of YPF goodbye. Say hello to even higher inflation. Kiss innovation goodbye.

I know of at least 3 tech firms that are leaving the country this winter. Why would any sane business owner invest money in a country that might one day just take their business? Is sad really.