RodalfoWalsh
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Most common excuse Argentines like to use to justify everything wrong with their country: It's not my fault, it's YOUR FAULT, woe is me.
5 Most Common Excuses Argentines Like To Use
- Thread starter garryl
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Most common excuse Argentines like to use to justify everything wrong with their country: It's not my fault, it's YOUR FAULT, woe is me.
Noesdeayer
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Gabby's attitude is the main reason I try not speak to Argentines I don't already know or outside of a business situation..I have been here for 36 years,am a "jubilado argentino",a taxpayer and speak perfect Argentine Spanish.Some need little or absolutely no provocation.Years ago one actually.told me when I answered, "The U.S.A.", to his question as to where I was born-"Bueno,no podemos elegir donde nacimos".Well,we can't choose where we were born.You can imagine what I told that hdp.Maybe we should start telling some of the tens of thousands of Argentines who are in the U.S. illegally that they should go back home and put their shoulders to the wheel for Argentina.
garryl
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Never thought about telling anyone to go back to their country in US.
Gabby is commenting on the foreigners who stay here. Most of them on expired tuorist visas// or may have DNIs. Work legally or illegally but hardly pay taxes. Have sex with the locals galore. Party here galore. Write on facebook " I am in Argentina. wohoo"
And yet... they come on the forum and bitch about the country.
No one likes to see a foreigner bitching about their country, in front of them, in their own country.
Its like going to someone's house and saying you and your house is bullshit. F*&k you, ass**Le.
mc kenna
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Well ,this might be new for some of you , but growing up here, this is the kind of crap you get anytime they decide to blame the US for something......
Come to find out many years after hearing this, i got sick of it and actually stood my ground and simply answered '' make me'', to this day, i'm waiting on some of these hardcore ''nacionalistas'' to indicate that they will'' walk the walk''.......
RodalfoWalsh
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We all pay IVA. I'm guessing that the perma tourists you mentioned probably pay more taxes than most Argentines and also generally don't utilize that many expensive public services such as health care or education.
Ceviche, I'm not trying to pick on you personally with the following, but you've hit on a personal nerve that gets me going, I think much like you seem to have a sensitive nerve about people bitching about Argentina on this forum. I've heard so many people over the last 9 years talk about exactly this topic and I feel I have to let some of my own irritation out.
Except for the tourist visas and bragging about being in Argentina (i.e., work legally or illegally and hardly pay any taxes, having sex with local girls and partying-galore), you've pretty much described Argentinos themselves (and a goodly portion, if not most, Agentinos themselves will drop their jaws when you tell them you chose to live here, at least when coming from places like the US, Europe, Australia, etc - isn't that telling in and of itself?).
Add on to it the next part:
And again, except for coming on an expat forum, you've pretty much described Argentinos as well.
So, it seems to me that in many ways foreigners here, and Argentinos themselves, have a lot in common.
Of course you are talking about a handful of people on the forums who complain and suddenly the majority of foreigners who live in Argentinos are money-sucking, law-breaking people who are a drag on the economy who take advantage of so much of the "free" things offered here - BTW - have you ever tried to get all of your VAT back when you leave? Some people have been able to do it, but most haven't been successful from those I've known who have tried it) and who post on the forum are suddenly perma-tourists. And even talking about perma-tourists, they are people, for the most part, who are not in the country illegally - they have been allowed to come in by the very government that the people here vote for and at least a few on this forum support. And the perma-tourists support themselves for the great part, and leave when they can't. Keep in mind that the government itself allows this.
Never mind that almost all expats I know live here under a regularized status (actually of the 40+ expats who I know, only one lives here as a perma-tourist - and he builds homes and buys material from the local economy and pays locals decent wages to build the houses). Used to be a lot more perma-tourists than there are now and about half of my friends who live here were perma-tourists at one time or another (including myself) but have since regularized their status and live law-abiding lives - certainly insofar as the majority of Argentinos themselves do.
And yet they still have to put up with life without complaining like all Argentinos do (never mind that Argentinos complain to anyone who will listen...)?
I'll give you that. But it hurts quite a bit more when it's true. How one handles that shows how mature of a person one is if one is hearing things one doesn't like about one's country.
And my ultimate answer to that would be - don't come on the forum. To attempt to follow the metaphor of a guest in someone's house - how would you feel if you were having a gathering that was somewhat restricted as to who is invited (but maybe it's on your back patio and others can hear you outside your property) and another person walks by, while you are in the middle of making a statement about how he treated you when you were in his house? Would you feel maybe like your right to say what you want in your own place was compromised? Would you feel at fault for having expressed your irritation and it having been overheard even though you were in your own space?
That's a lot like this forum, not like we are in someone's house and insulting him to his face.
So then, what you're saying is that one shouldn't complain no matter what the host does, for example? Dog shits on the floor and you step in it and your host laughs and thinks it's a great joke and makes no move to get you something to clean your shoe with - you should just hold your breath and pretend like it's not there or laugh along with them? Or when a friend of the host looks at your date continuously through the evening at the dinner table and starts making lewd, rude comments to her, you should just say nothing? Or when you say something, the host makes excuses about his friend and refuses to try to reign him in, you should just laugh it off and tell the host what a wonderful time you're having? Or if in the middle of the dinner the host stands up and says "I know I invited you all here to have dinner, but I really think you all should contribute, and more than your fair share" and pulls out a gun and robs everyone at the table, you should just leave with a smile on your face and be glad he didn't sodomize you as well?
If we were walking around in public saying these things in front of people, I'd agree with you - it's very rude. that's why when I am steamed up I come on here instead of railing at my neighbor downstairs, and anyone else who will listen to me, because he's trying to cheat me out of 100% of the price of repairing his bathroom below me, because my half-bath wall tank for the toilet was leaking inside the wall and I didn't know it and the water ruined the paint on his ceiling and wall below, instead of being honest and working with me to really make things right as I tried to do with him.
And see, I never even complained about that on the forum previously, just let it go because I find when I really get stressed about things I can come on here and bitch about it! I've found the amount of bitching I need to do has subsided significantly.
Of course, I've had a number of Argentinos tell me to my face, in public (even as I'm paying part of their salary, such as with cab drivers), that my country is at fault for all the ills in their country, that estadounidenses are cold, heartless people, who don't give a crap about their families, on and on and on ad infinitum...well, I find that to be quite insulting and have had that happen many times over the last 9 years I've lived here. Not to mention insults to my expat family just because they happen to hail from Paraguay. And I'm a polite person (as is my wife, until she's crossed) who rarely gives someone a reason to treat me like that. Yet it happens and I deal with it. What kind of hosts are these people?
It's ridiculous to equate posting steam-letting on a forum dedicated to foreigners, to walking into a host's house and telling him what crap he and his house is.
And has anyone ever noticed that it doesn't really matter where one comes from, but everyone bitches about not just Argentina, but everyone else's country as well? How many times have I sucked it up on this particular forum, reading what a bunch of idiots are "Americans" (for all the various reasons), and not just the posts from Argentinos who post on this board, but a plethora of other nationalities as well - including Americans themselves!
And what most people coming from Latin countries in North, Central and South America have to say about both Argentinos and Americans would fill a few gigabytes of storage, I'm thinking. But I guess we should just suck that up and ignore it. Oh wait - many of us do
Too many thin-skinned people who don't have enough self-respect to notice the truth in the statements that are made, or inversely at times to ignore the statements that some idiots make that are just plain mean or stupid - seems like so many people can't make those distinctions and either accept the truths behind the statements or cannot simply discard the "idioteces" and move on. Maybe they should examine their lives and the way their country is and see if there is reason for "verguenza" before they start wailing and pulling hair and tearing clothes.
And so then the famous "if you don't like it you should leave." In the States, the conservative "red-necks" and "hillbillies" have a saying (I bet I catch hell for this): "America. Love it, or leave it." Is that the kind of thinking people really want to be associated with?
Is that we're talking about here? Can't even criticize obvious things that everyone criticizes, just because we're foreigners?
Please.
And I've hosted a few Argentinos in my apartment or house (i.e., we're not talking metaphor here, but reality), who have been extremely rude and insulting. I know exactly what it's like - they don't seem to mind. I've also hosted many Argentinos who have been courteous and graceful and wonderful guests. I couldn't give a rat's ass if they were to go home and talk to their family and friends about how shoddy our apartment is, or how the sofa leg was broken and never repaired correctly which made the sofa move when they were sitting on it. Or how we're crazy because we like spicy foods and they couldn't eat but a bite or two of it and had to go home hungry or stuffed with cornbread that my wife made, which gave them gas afterwards because it was the only thing they could eat. It's the truth! Change or shrug it off, don't blame the guests for not liking what you put out for them. Or quit inviting them in if it bothers you.
Enough about the host-guest relationship metaphors. Like many (most?) metaphors, it is not so much like real life but more like a Hollywood movie that tries to teach a "lesson" from a story "based on actual events" but are actually originally from highly exaggerated or just not apt incidents. In my opinion
Except for the tourist visas and bragging about being in Argentina (i.e., work legally or illegally and hardly pay any taxes, having sex with local girls and partying-galore), you've pretty much described Argentinos themselves (and a goodly portion, if not most, Agentinos themselves will drop their jaws when you tell them you chose to live here, at least when coming from places like the US, Europe, Australia, etc - isn't that telling in and of itself?).
Add on to it the next part:
And again, except for coming on an expat forum, you've pretty much described Argentinos as well.
So, it seems to me that in many ways foreigners here, and Argentinos themselves, have a lot in common.
Of course you are talking about a handful of people on the forums who complain and suddenly the majority of foreigners who live in Argentinos are money-sucking, law-breaking people who are a drag on the economy who take advantage of so much of the "free" things offered here - BTW - have you ever tried to get all of your VAT back when you leave? Some people have been able to do it, but most haven't been successful from those I've known who have tried it) and who post on the forum are suddenly perma-tourists. And even talking about perma-tourists, they are people, for the most part, who are not in the country illegally - they have been allowed to come in by the very government that the people here vote for and at least a few on this forum support. And the perma-tourists support themselves for the great part, and leave when they can't. Keep in mind that the government itself allows this.
Never mind that almost all expats I know live here under a regularized status (actually of the 40+ expats who I know, only one lives here as a perma-tourist - and he builds homes and buys material from the local economy and pays locals decent wages to build the houses). Used to be a lot more perma-tourists than there are now and about half of my friends who live here were perma-tourists at one time or another (including myself) but have since regularized their status and live law-abiding lives - certainly insofar as the majority of Argentinos themselves do.
And yet they still have to put up with life without complaining like all Argentinos do (never mind that Argentinos complain to anyone who will listen...)?
I'll give you that. But it hurts quite a bit more when it's true. How one handles that shows how mature of a person one is if one is hearing things one doesn't like about one's country.
And my ultimate answer to that would be - don't come on the forum. To attempt to follow the metaphor of a guest in someone's house - how would you feel if you were having a gathering that was somewhat restricted as to who is invited (but maybe it's on your back patio and others can hear you outside your property) and another person walks by, while you are in the middle of making a statement about how he treated you when you were in his house? Would you feel maybe like your right to say what you want in your own place was compromised? Would you feel at fault for having expressed your irritation and it having been overheard even though you were in your own space?
That's a lot like this forum, not like we are in someone's house and insulting him to his face.
So then, what you're saying is that one shouldn't complain no matter what the host does, for example? Dog shits on the floor and you step in it and your host laughs and thinks it's a great joke and makes no move to get you something to clean your shoe with - you should just hold your breath and pretend like it's not there or laugh along with them? Or when a friend of the host looks at your date continuously through the evening at the dinner table and starts making lewd, rude comments to her, you should just say nothing? Or when you say something, the host makes excuses about his friend and refuses to try to reign him in, you should just laugh it off and tell the host what a wonderful time you're having? Or if in the middle of the dinner the host stands up and says "I know I invited you all here to have dinner, but I really think you all should contribute, and more than your fair share" and pulls out a gun and robs everyone at the table, you should just leave with a smile on your face and be glad he didn't sodomize you as well?
If we were walking around in public saying these things in front of people, I'd agree with you - it's very rude. that's why when I am steamed up I come on here instead of railing at my neighbor downstairs, and anyone else who will listen to me, because he's trying to cheat me out of 100% of the price of repairing his bathroom below me, because my half-bath wall tank for the toilet was leaking inside the wall and I didn't know it and the water ruined the paint on his ceiling and wall below, instead of being honest and working with me to really make things right as I tried to do with him.
And see, I never even complained about that on the forum previously, just let it go because I find when I really get stressed about things I can come on here and bitch about it! I've found the amount of bitching I need to do has subsided significantly.
Of course, I've had a number of Argentinos tell me to my face, in public (even as I'm paying part of their salary, such as with cab drivers), that my country is at fault for all the ills in their country, that estadounidenses are cold, heartless people, who don't give a crap about their families, on and on and on ad infinitum...well, I find that to be quite insulting and have had that happen many times over the last 9 years I've lived here. Not to mention insults to my expat family just because they happen to hail from Paraguay. And I'm a polite person (as is my wife, until she's crossed) who rarely gives someone a reason to treat me like that. Yet it happens and I deal with it. What kind of hosts are these people?
It's ridiculous to equate posting steam-letting on a forum dedicated to foreigners, to walking into a host's house and telling him what crap he and his house is.
And has anyone ever noticed that it doesn't really matter where one comes from, but everyone bitches about not just Argentina, but everyone else's country as well? How many times have I sucked it up on this particular forum, reading what a bunch of idiots are "Americans" (for all the various reasons), and not just the posts from Argentinos who post on this board, but a plethora of other nationalities as well - including Americans themselves!
And what most people coming from Latin countries in North, Central and South America have to say about both Argentinos and Americans would fill a few gigabytes of storage, I'm thinking. But I guess we should just suck that up and ignore it. Oh wait - many of us do
Too many thin-skinned people who don't have enough self-respect to notice the truth in the statements that are made, or inversely at times to ignore the statements that some idiots make that are just plain mean or stupid - seems like so many people can't make those distinctions and either accept the truths behind the statements or cannot simply discard the "idioteces" and move on. Maybe they should examine their lives and the way their country is and see if there is reason for "verguenza" before they start wailing and pulling hair and tearing clothes.
And so then the famous "if you don't like it you should leave." In the States, the conservative "red-necks" and "hillbillies" have a saying (I bet I catch hell for this): "America. Love it, or leave it." Is that the kind of thinking people really want to be associated with?
Is that we're talking about here? Can't even criticize obvious things that everyone criticizes, just because we're foreigners?
Please.
And I've hosted a few Argentinos in my apartment or house (i.e., we're not talking metaphor here, but reality), who have been extremely rude and insulting. I know exactly what it's like - they don't seem to mind. I've also hosted many Argentinos who have been courteous and graceful and wonderful guests. I couldn't give a rat's ass if they were to go home and talk to their family and friends about how shoddy our apartment is, or how the sofa leg was broken and never repaired correctly which made the sofa move when they were sitting on it. Or how we're crazy because we like spicy foods and they couldn't eat but a bite or two of it and had to go home hungry or stuffed with cornbread that my wife made, which gave them gas afterwards because it was the only thing they could eat. It's the truth! Change or shrug it off, don't blame the guests for not liking what you put out for them. Or quit inviting them in if it bothers you.
Enough about the host-guest relationship metaphors. Like many (most?) metaphors, it is not so much like real life but more like a Hollywood movie that tries to teach a "lesson" from a story "based on actual events" but are actually originally from highly exaggerated or just not apt incidents. In my opinion
ghost
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Do you know the Acid Rain Song
No.
El Queso,
You already know, I don't have the patience to read your *story book* kind..long posts.
Please reply to my post in 3~5 lines. I will read it and revert.
Thanks.
