AlexanderB said:
BA Expats sometimes reminds me of late night AM talk radio shows in the western US, favoured by conspiracy nuts, UFO sighters, white nationalists, apocalyptic survivalists, and black chopper-theorising types, and usually tuned into by truck drivers in the wee hours.
But I enjoy the bizarre threads, thread hijackings, off-topics meanderings. There's a beauty to the seething honesty and people letting off steam. It's much more interesting than the tight-fisted despotism of civil, measured thoughts.
Hm. Its always interesting to see people seemingly justifying what goes on in Argentina by trying to provide a blanket statement like, "its the same everywhere". What is even more interesting is that some people pounce on anything bad that happens in the US and present it as proof telling all of us, "look ye uneducated masses, the US is just as bad, or actually its even worse...you just don't know about it." And then, when the uneducated don't bow down and listen, they are told that they are crazy like those UFO believers and white nationalists (yeah, that comparison cracked me up), etc.
First off, here's my question to you Alexander, could you pull up a recent report on Argentina customs that was written by an Argentine newspaper where they arrested customs agents for stealing people's baggage, or items from their baggage (I was surprised when my bags weren't stolen; even though they stole a freakin' umbrella)? And if you can't find it, could you find something about the customs being investigated at least? Being monitored? Anything of the sort?
Also, you brought up petty street crime, etc. Yeah, I am sure there are criminals in the US and I am sure a lot of the times it goes unnoticed but once it surfaces, people don't take it as the norm, people ask for change and sooner or later, things do change. I can't remember who it was here but someone once mentioned New York and how it was cleaned up because people protested against the rising crime rate (don't take my word for it because I just remember reading it, so I could be completely off).
Anyway, the point I am getting at is that it is not that there is crime here or that people are rude or that people don't stick to their lanes or there is no concept of right of way or people cheat each other out of their money on a daily basis or that there is just general lack of trust, etc. The problem is that all of that is accepted as the norm and people shrug their shoulders and say that this is the way it is in Argentina! No one wants to do anything about it. Its the way things are and its the way things will be until the people here change their mentality.
The first week we got here, our door handle was stolen (yeah, apparently there is a market for door handles). Our first reaction was, "let's call the police!". Our neighbors heard us talking and they were like, "no! We don't know where you guys have lived before but here you don't call the police for things like this. This is insignificant!" We said, "but they stole something, even though its insignificant, its still a crime." They said, "Our car cover(?) was stolen last week, I went to the police and they refused to write a report. That's the way things are here. The police is so poor here that if they do write a report, they go to your home and then you have to be careful not to get robbed by the police."
We have security cameras in our building and we asked the people responsible to check the video tapes to see if they can get the culprit on there and then we can go to the police with evidence. The people waved and said, "Oh it doesn't matter. No one really cares!" The week before we arrived, our portero's apartment was robbed. So we thought he would be more willing to help us out with the whole thing and understand where we were coming from. So we went up to him and he laughed in our face saying, "yeah, handles get stolen all the time, its the way things are in Argentina." We asked him if the culprits from the last robbery were caught and he put a dumb look on his face and said, "I don't know. Who cares?"
So, of course, we went home and called my mother-in-law for advice. She told us to stay away from the police for something this insignificant. And so we did.
Now, everyone in this story is an Argentine (our portero is Paraguayan). No expat in sight, except me.
You can take it however you want but honestly, not everyone on this forum is a detached foreigner who looks at things with a US or Canadian or European lens. I don't even have any American/Canadian/European friends here. Most of my acquaintances here are Argentine (with some Colombians, Peruvians, Paraguayans and Venezuelans at church).
I know this post is already the length of a book but while I am at it, another thing needs addressing. When was the last time you felt proud of your ability to cheat people and not get caught? I would assume if you're a decent human being then maybe never or not in a long time (if you're not a decent human being, then why are we having this conversation?
). Because, I actually had this conversation with my Argentine acquaintances. And they felt proud that they could do things that weren't legal or accepted. They were proud of the fact that they were "rebels". One guy even told me, "I can lie to your face and you would never even know about it." And I was like, "And why is that a good thing?" And everyone else went, "Because it takes skill!"
The above is an isolated incident and in no way represents all of Argentina but it is an example to help you understand where we come from.
Of course, at the end of it all, its upto you to either have a realistic picture or a rosy picture. "It does not break my leg, nor does it pick my pocket."
But whatever you do, please stop comparing it to the US or Europe or whatever. Argentina has problems all on its own. But that doesn't mean it is all evil and nothing but evil. There are things you can enjoy too, there are good people too.
It is a fact, however, that things are going from bad to worse in terms of crime, economy, etc. Whether you want to close your eyes and believe all is well and anyone who disagrees with your view is an idiot or whether you want to go with reality is all up to you.
Okay, I need coffee or something!
