A Comment About All The Negativity

[nicoenarg]

Yes, I thought of this too when reading the post --- and it's even from just yesterday!

Yeah I hadn't read it. But you know, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong .

 

[rawlf]

I am a avid reader of the expat-life forum, as much for entertainment has for information. As a longtime world traveler, although not one who has lived for any length of time in a foreign country, I find it amusing that so many of the contributors to the forum find it so difficult to enjoy a comfortable daily life in Argentina, particularly Buenos Aires.
I am preparing to move my residence from the United States to Argentina, because I can no longer afford to live in United States, having retired some 15 years ago. I find economic conditions here at home make it difficult for me to continue the comfortable lifestyle I was able to enjoy at my retirement. I have been on a longtime visitor to Argentina over the last 15 years, primarily in Patagonia where I now have many friends. Over the years I have seen many faces of change in Argentina, not all favorable, and find it fascinating to see Argentina learning to live as a very new democracy. However I have enjoyed the country and its people as I have learned to live with them. While I find Buenos Aires a fascinating, interesting and exciting place, I would not consider living in the Federal Capital. I currently live in a suburb of Chicago, some 35 miles north of the city, and I would no more consider living in the City of Chicago than I would in the metropolis of Buenos Aires. I also know that the cost of living in Chicago would be way beyond my means. If I lived in the city of Chicago, or any big city in any country, I would no doubt have a long list of negative observations and reactions to the conditions that exist in the city because I am a confirmed suburbanite. Consequently when I look for a home in Argentina, I look to the environs of Córdoba, Mendoza, Entre Rios as primary targets, all of which are different Argentinas.
I read with great interest the commentary about the economic and political situation in Buenos Aires and Argentina, and the strong opinions, mostly negative, that most of the expats seem too share. From my personal experience in Argentina and in other countries I know it is extremely difficult for a foreigner to accurately assess and understand the political and economic climate of a country, particularly when one is exposed only to the circumstances of a large city or if one's associates are of a single political or ideological mind. expat or native. Therefore I try not to formulate my own rigorous opinions of the country, its culture or its people, prematurely.
Argentina and Buenos Aires have what seem to be almost insurmountable problems. Unusual? Not in the least.
In just the last three years, here in the United States:
The price of gasoline has doubled
The cost of all goods has increased considerably solely because of the increased costs of fuel.
The value of my home has dropped 25%.
My property taxes have increased by 15%
The cost of my Medical Insurance increased 125%.
In the city of Chicago the price of a city bus ticket has risen to 3.00 U$D.
The city of Chicago has privatized street parking meters resulting in a cost of 4-6 U$D per hour.
The value of my retirement program declined 30 %.
Only 20% of this year’s college graduates can expect to find employment within 18 months
At the national level, the annual deficit, total debt, and actual indebtedness have quadrupled and exceeded our ability to sustain the economy. The obligation of unfunded liabilities approximates an additional 90% of the national debt adds to the indebtedness. And politicians of either party are only concerned about their reelection and refuse to address the issues. The average citizen is left helpless.
While the economy, read Rome, is burning, those in power, who could apply themselves to addressing the many problems, are concerned only with the pending elections seven months away. As but one example of the absurdity of the state of the present political climate, the incumbent president established a full-time, fully staffed re-election headquarters 14 months ago, with a published operational budget for the 2-year campaugn of $1,000,000,000. That is not a misprint. That is 1 billion dollars, with a “B.” And that is just one party.
The list could go on……
So you think conditions in Argentina and particularly the Federal Capital are a mess and getting worse? If you are an expat from the US, please return as quickly as possible and I believe you will quickly find you have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. You will have some interesting comparisons to make.
No matter what your political persuasion or economic status, please be careful that your observations and conclusions are kept in perspective. This is Argentina, not a surrogate for another country, why, they even speak their own language.

 

[surfing]

Just teasing --- all in good fun.

 

[nicoenarg]

@rawlf,

Thank you for ONCE AGAIN comparing Argentina with another country. Newsflash, Argentina is still not at the level it should be.

People don't seem to get it. No one says that Argentina sucks compared to XYZ. Argentina sucks, period. BUT the problem is not that it sucks but that they have the potential to be better yet they're not.

 

[Gringoboy]

I would hardly call Argentina 'a very new democracy' as if she were still finding her feet, so to speak.
This country has been a democracy (of sorts) many times since independence from Spain and has had numerous democratically elected presidents since 1983.
Surely 29 years of continued democracy is enough time in which to get one's act together?

 

[Sockhopper]

its hard not to be disappointed by the country's refusal to harness what it has and take its rightful place in the world......I'm deeply sad for the Argentines for whom this is life. They can't pack up and leave when crisis hits again and gain.

I'm not an expat and, instead, a repeat visitor who's been deciding to retire in BA until I realized how November's first set of new currency controls might affect my husband and I should we retire there. I got a taste of those in November a week after they became law. I wasn't permitted to buy all the pesos I needed and planned to buy at Banco de la Nacion at EZE upon arrival with the foreign cash I needed to support my most recent 6-week stay there and had brought with me to exchange.

I'd read about the new November control which was directed at controlling access to $US cash inside Argentina in order to curb its outflow from the country. But nothing I found reading mentioned additionally a new restriction on visitors accessing pesos within Argentina to spend there. I asked to exchange roughly the same amount at the beginning of each previous trip without any problem at 'Nacion'. After my trip, I've tried to obtain reasons for how that control came to justify my non-access to pesos to spend in BA. I've not found a rational answer to that. As you might expect, I was told that Argentine laws are irrational and that my choice is to buy pesos in 'black' which would certainly work.

This meant my husband and I had to think harder about retiring in BA and to decide if we wanted to deal in 'black' which we don't. Then came April's further financial controls including the new necessity to have foreign currency income deposited into an Argentine 'FC' account in case after a year there, we need to access foreign currency for say, a trip to Barcelona or Miami. Along with that control came import controls which really did me in since I'm trying to get away from the country I'm in now where shopping is so poor that everything we buy for ourselves and the house is ordered by us online from the US and Europe. I want to not have to do this wherever we retire. It would be great to just walk to a local shop rather then hanker for things not sold where we live. That would be like a 'normal' life to us, the kind I would love to regain.

I posed a question to this forum on online shopping and learned that my limit of foreign goods shipped or brought in legally was a mere $US300/year. That's not workable because we don't like Miami for shopping, wouldn't be Americans taking trips home; and with heavy moving expenses relocating on a fixed income, we wouldn't have as well the income to travel to foreign countries to buy necessities during our first year or two in BA.

It's with great sadness that we're abandoning our almost-there plan of retiring in Argentina and obtaining temporary residency. Every day this bothers me. I can hardly bear not following through on this plan. I'll miss the people, their way of life, the respect and care they show one another in public and find important to do and to teach their children to do.

We have found another country that suits our tastes, is cheaper than where we live now, that has all the goodies, far fewer restrictions than Argentina, another language for us to learn instead, and fab travel opportunities on the cheap. But nothing will match portenos and the hundreds of things we love about BA. We can only hope that 2 years from now, we can start spending 3 months a year in BA once we've adequately settled in our alternative choice of country. Nothing's cast in stone yet, and I just hope I don't keep dreaming about BA while we're enjoying the alternative we've identified.

And that by then, when I turn up in BA with enough foreign cash to fulfill our commitments in BA for professional services and a planned holiday, I'm not still prohibited from buying pesos legally at Nacion in EZE. In November, they gave me $US900 of my foreign currency back saying the equivalent of "Nyet!". I couldn't exchange it. And because I'd brought all my trip cash with me, I then couldn't withdraw it from an atm either!

When I fought to convert that $900 to pesos in Alto Palermo legally, I was allowed to do that only because I happened to be a married woman!! That really felt insulting. I felt like I was worth 2 centavos as I left with my precious pesos in hand. And guilty for hiring our tango instructor, our dentist and booking a day at the spa for the two of us. And buying my birthday present there. And having 2 luxe meals out.

On the other hand, it's not a foreigner's place "to be disappointed by the country's refusal to harness what it has and take its rightful place in the world". By whose standard 'rightful'? In which world? The one we're used to at home or the one that's evolving called tomorrow and that we ourselves may not find ourselves sufficiently up to date with to keep following the same old prescription that we set in the last century? Why should our dogma or principles apply now to any country other than our own, anyway? The need for international trade is there, but who says we ourselves will always be able to depend upon that?

Only Argentines can decide what their country's 'rightful place in the world is'! Our ideas and goals may make no sense in their environment and culture. We have to accept that our beliefs are no longer compelling to vast numbers of people worldwide though they still are to many.

So, why feel 'sorry' for people who have had more experience coping with rapid ecomomic change than ourselves, for people who may have therefore developed skills of which we've not a clue because we've not before needed to learn these? And however much foreigners invest in Argentina, it's not our country upon which we ought to planting our hopes and aspirations, period. It's a sovereign country, for heaven's sake!

My whole reason for going to Argentina in the first place was because it was different. Since I don't think I can cope with certain new limitiations on a long-term basis there, that's my problem to deal with, not one to blame on some supposed failure of Argentina to accommodate me. It's better to communicate with people about their lives than lament them or patronize the system under which they live as inferior or pathetic.

 

[lucha54]

We have found another country that suits our tastes, is cheaper than where we live now, that has all the goodies, far fewer restrictions than Argentina, another language for us to learn instead, and fab travel opportunities on the cheap. But nothing will match portenos and the hundreds of things we love about BA. We can only hope that 2 years from now, we can start spending 3 months a year in BA once we've adequately settled in our alternative choice of country. Nothing's cast in stone yet, and I just hope I don't keep dreaming about BA while we're enjoying the alternative we've identified.

Can you divulge? Only to sate my aching curiosity.... Brazil? Asia? France?

 

[cruizes]

We have found another country that suits our tastes, is cheaper than where we live now, that has all the goodies, far fewer restrictions than Argentina, another language for us to learn instead, and fab travel opportunities on the cheap.

Having re-thoughts also. What country are you looking into to retire?

 

[el_expatriado]

I'd read about the new November control which was directed at controlling access to $US cash inside Argentina in order to curb its outflow from the country. But nothing I found reading mentioned additionally a new restriction on visitors accessing pesos within Argentina to spend there. I asked to exchange roughly the same amount at the beginning of each previous trip without any problem at 'Nacion'. After my trip, I've tried to obtain reasons for how that control came to justify my non-access to pesos to spend in BA. I've not found a rational answer to that. As you might expect, I was told that Argentine laws are irrational and that my choice is to buy pesos in 'black' which would certainly work.

The new currency controls are the best thing that could happen to all us lucky foreigners who have dollars to spend. Just use xoom or sell your dollars en negro or if you have big money to move, you do contado con liqui but in reverse (USA --> ARG) and you will earn a ton more pesos for your dollars.

Now that the dollar is worth 5.15 instead of 4.40 its like all the prices have dropped 15%.

Don't be sour, be happy.

 

[Sockhopper]

The new currency controls are the best thing that could happen to all us lucky foreigners ...........you will earn a ton more pesos for your dollars..........

Don't be sour, be happy.

Not wanting to start a new life in a new country by dealing unlawfully in it and possibly with criminals, and wanting to know the rationale of a currency control law in Argentina (against foreigners obtaining the pesos they need) cannot render someone 'sour' and thereby in need of making himself 'happy' to cheat his new country's law and its purposes.

We hate it when foreigners come to our shores pissing on our laws for their personal or philosophical enrichment grounded in a sense of their innate superiority, and then deploying our citizens to help them do that.