Again: Who Much Do You Pay Your Cleaner?

[rrptownley]

Thanks for your replies.

For those interested here is a summary, in AR pesos per hour (extras — travel, aguinaldo, etc — may vary).

Range: 50 - 100
Median: 90
Mean: 84

I calculated the general month-by-month inflation as best I could through private indices, using September 30th and 60 pesos/hour (our originally agreed amount) as a base, and then incrementing every 30th of the month until January 30th 2016. This gave a value of 67.4 pesos/hour.
With annual inflation at 35% or more, I then added a 6-month buffer of 15% to give a final total of 77.5 pesos an hour.

I'll go with 80 pesos/hour.

Thanks for the help.

 

[homeinbuenosaires]

I'm surprised that people pay so little, and like the conclusion that RichardRPTownley has reached. It sounds fair, as does the methodology that he used - I appreciate that he took the time to do it. City girl also sounds fair.

I'm especially surprised that El Queso pays so little, given his own comments recently about constantly helping people out of hovels. Ain't nobody getting out of a hovel on 45 pesos an hour - especially when it’s not a 9 to 5 or anything - in today's Buenos Aires!

Obviously, it doesn’t work like this (and a 40 hour week for a cleaner with a few different jobs will be more like 50-60 hours with the traveling between jobs in most cases, but at the wage that El Queso is offering, she’d be earning 7800 pesos/ month if she had the luxury of doing that job in one place, uninterrupted, 40 hours per week. That is a HELL of a lot less than the $1,000 USD/ month that Michael gets, and he says Polina has been in Argentina for 45 years (which, given that she doesn’t look much older, makes her practically Argentine in terms of knowing about resources available/ how most people here live). Why should one be expected to live/ support dependents etc on half as much (your tone implies that you think you are being very generous) and the other not? Given my family and ethnic background, I’m not sure I want to know the answer to that…*

I really don't think some expats (not El Queso, obviously) understand how wretched living conditions are for most people who do this kind of work. The commutes are also pretty brutal, and while the viaticos pay the bus fare, they don’t pay the (also very draining, especially after a day of cleaning) hours of traveling time.

It's pretty grueling and thankless work - nobody notices a job well done, only the mistakes, and people can underestimate the time it takes to do a really thorough job. I know, as it's what I myself do right now - I'm literally leaving in a few minutes to do it right now - as do many female members of my family here. It's a real luxury to have someone doing that for you (I’ve never had it for me personally), and I don’t expect my luxuries to be cheap.

The last time I was hiring someone sporadically to help me - I was doing the bulk of it, for my rental apartments, but sometimes had only a couple of hours to turn a place around - I paid what would have been 100 pesos per hour in today's money, plus we would both eat the same food afterwards (sometimes out) and I seem to recall paying viaticos and always rounding up and giving gifts. I’d keep an eye on inflation/ the blue dollar and always adjust upwards accordingly.

Despite (or because of? It’s possible) of all this, I never found anyone truly great/ reliable/ honest and hiring members of my own family would just be weird. I haven't really been in a position to have someone en blanco, it was never regular enough or enough hours, but that would have been the ideal solution, even if it had been regular and only for a couple of hours a week.

I'm looking into using zolvers.com in the future for the rentals - to get around the legal issues for both parties + fear of being robbed/ incompetence/ flakiness/ being sued - but plan to tip generously to take the total received by the cleaner to around/ at least that amount (using USD as my guide, having taken the blue rate in the past obviously).

* These two paragraphs are 100% directed at El Queso, not everyone/ anyone else who didn’t judge me for my comments on the thread about Michael. I’d have posted it there were the thread not locked

 

[nicoenarg]

I'm looking into using zolvers.com in the future for the rentals - to get around the legal issues for both parties + fear of being robbed/ incompetence/ flakiness/ being sued - but plan to tip generously to take the total received by the cleaner to around/ at least that amount (using USD as my guide, having taken the blue rate in the past obviously).

Zolvers only facilitates contact between the person wanting to hire a cleaner and the cleaner. They don't do anything legally for you other than check that the cleaner has the legal right to work in Argentina (when they assign a cleaner to you, they send you photos of their DNI, front and back). I've used Zolvers in the past and they've send people who were plenty incompetent. They were quick to change the cleaner and assign a new one though. You will have to see who you like and that might take a while. Everything legal, all the paperwork to have the cleaner en blanco will have to be done by you.

 

[Rich One]

Seems that Argentinians (or Spanish speakers) pay less than gringos.

 

[Ceviche]

Seems that Argentinians (or Spanish speakers) pay less than gringos.

I have tried paying less but I usually lose more in form of theft or very poor quality work or not showing up or having some other negative facet to deal with.

 

[citygirl]

Seems that Argentinians (or Spanish speakers) pay less than gringos.

Or most probably live in pesos and not dollars

Whomever is paying 6K for a 20 hour a week cleaning job must have one very happy employee. That's a very good salary for such few hours.

 

[ElQueso]

I'm surprised that people pay so little, and like the conclusion that RichardRPTownley has reached. It sounds fair, as does the methodology that he used - I appreciate that he took the time to do it. City girl also sounds fair.

I'm especially surprised that El Queso pays so little, given his own comments recently about constantly helping people out of hovels. Ain't nobody getting out of a hovel on 45 pesos an hour - especially when it’s not a 9 to 5 or anything - in today's Buenos Aires!

Obviously, it doesn’t work like this (and a 40 hour week for a cleaner with a few different jobs will be more like 50-60 hours with the traveling between jobs in most cases, but at the wage that El Queso is offering, she’d be earning 7800 pesos/ month if she had the luxury of doing that job in one place, uninterrupted, 40 hours per week. That is a HELL of a lot less than the $1,000 USD/ month that Michael gets, and he says Polina has been in Argentina for 45 years (which, given that she doesn’t look much older, makes her practically Argentine in terms of knowing about resources available/ how most people here live). Why should one be expected to live/ support dependents etc on half as much (your tone implies that you think you are being very generous) and the other not? Given my family and ethnic background, I’m not sure I want to know the answer to that…*

* These two paragraphs are 100% directed at El Queso, not everyone/ anyone else who didn’t judge me for my comments on the thread about Michael. I’d have posted it there were the thread not locked
[...]

Wow, Homeinbuenosaires, you really got me. Oh my god, I feel so shamed all of the sudden. Imagine my horror to discover that I am continuing the drudgery of unskilled workers after having talked about having helped people here in Argentina and in Paraguay! I have lowered my head in shame.

I don't pay our cleaning lady $45 pesos an hour. If you look carefully, you'll see the comments I made were a bit over a year ago, not in this recent batch of adding on to the thread a year later. In fact, I think I was paying around the median salary for a maid at the time, given the surrounding comments. But thanks for your judgment, it is really important to me!

I hadn't made a comment about how much I pay a maid currently since we let her go, at least for now, because I can't afford to pay a maid right now given that I have to deal with fire damage in my apartment and can't get the wonderful insurance company to pay me due to an error that they made.

I'm sure the fact that I let the maid go will give you umbrage of some type as well, but that's too bad. I reckon I can deal with it

I was paying 80 pesos an hour as of January 8 when I had to let her go. That wage was not arbitrary - it was based on what I know two different temporary rental management companies were paying their apartment cleaners (I pay a bit more because I know they don't quite pay enough).

You know, I'm not sure why you all of the sudden feel like you have to single me out. In the thread about Michael Smith you seem to have thought that I was singling you out for some reason, but I didn't even think about you when i wrote the post, or even notice your post specifically (at the time), and I certainly didn't mention you by name (in case you are somehow challenged by words, this means I didn't single you out even though you have taken it that way and feel the need to do so with me) when I wrote the post that you responded to me about in a PM and in the thread itself. For some reason you thought I was talking to you specifically and you felt the need to justify to me why you thought you were right in giving Michael a hard time. And it appears now that it's because you feel slighted because you didn't get help for something you needed a year and a half ago? I don't remember your post about the "Alabaman". Sorry I didn't help you at the time.

Your petty little comment at the end of the quote above in this thread just shows your ass (yeah, in case you're wondering, that is a judgmental statement). You are apparently the only one who took my comments personally and indeed as a personal judgement (which they were neither) and are certainly the only one who is out to prove what a beast I am as a result of a perceived slight.

And you may take this post as 90% directed at you The other 10% goes to the content of the thread about what I paid a cleaning lady - as of the beginning of the year.

 

[syngirl]

I'm especially surprised that El Queso pays so little, given his own comments recently about constantly helping people out of hovels. Ain't nobody getting out of a hovel on 45 pesos an hour - especially when it’s not a 9 to 5 or anything - in today's Buenos Aires!

Check the date of his post -- I doubt he's paying that now.

 

[Noesdeayer]

Zolvers : is a real find and I thank the forum because here's where I found them.
They're quick competent and professional
I have used them for a gasista- registered,experienced and punctual Now I'm going to use them to repair my calefon-hot water heater.
You pay a reservation fee for example, on $380 -$80 -payable by credit card or in RapiPago or Pago Facil which is almost immediately accredited maybe one hour later.
They then assign a technician to your request and send you his/her cel # and DNI Then you phone the technician and set the date,time etc.
A small anecdote:
First I was going to use someone I got off the internet 4 years ago with whom I was satisfied.
I phoned them and they made an appointment for the next day.Later on they phoned back to tell me that they would be without a technician until Feb.10
No "disculpe","lo sentimos" ,"lamentablemente" .That would be too good business like.Only,"Queriamos decirle eso".I told them to go to "carajo".
Any problem ypu have with Zolvers the're "right on the case" .
Just like Bajo.

 

[Nitale]

I pay 300 pesos for 3 up to 4 hours only once a week plus 75 pesos for transport, I also provide lunch and "merienda". For
vacuuming, cleaning bathroom and kitchen tiles and dusting furniture in small two bedroom apartment, no washing clothes, no ironing, no bed-making.