Amazing how expensive BsArs is

[trennod]

McD's is way over-priced here if you compare it to other goods and services on a Purchase Parity scale. I've found some things cheaper - like laundry, and some things much more expensive.

Agree with you that takeaway isnt cheap here. I dont know if laundry is the best comparison though, generally there is a high risk your clothes wont come back as you left them, unless you know a good one.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

Thanks for reminding me to get my air dried sheets off the line. There was just enough wind today not to use fabric softener.

I don't get it. I use fabric softener but air-dried towels and underwear still come out hard as a rock!

 

[starlucia]

here is a link to the supermarket just down the road i would buy most stuff at:

http://www.lidl.be/cps/rde/xchg/SID-....xsl/index.htm

This this this. In Europe, there are discount stores such as Aldi and Lidl (and in the US, Trader Joe's, Target, and - boo - Wal-Mart) that allow customers to save significant amounts on groceries. The interiors are often depressing and lines are long, BUT consumers have a choice. Yesterday I went to Lidl:
29 cents for 1/4 kilo of cherry tomatoes
29 cents for 6 kiwis
45 cents for a 200-gram jar of whole-grain mustard from Germany
49 cents for a box of Barilla pasta
85 cents for a 500-gram jar of tikka masala sauce
99 cents for a 500-gram loaf of German rye bread
1.09 for a 340-gram jar of peanut butter
1.19 for a kilo of frozen green peas
99 cents for a jar of strawberry jam (real jam -- nothing but fruit and raw cane sugar and pectin -- unlike the Argentine stuff which is full of high-fructose corn syrup.)
1.39 for a 200-gram bar of 55% dark chocolate with whole hazelnuts
1.15 for a liter of organic low-fat milk
1.50 for a family-size box of Weetabix

Food for a week, and my entire bill was a bit over 10 euro. This seems reasonable in an area where the minimum wage is 8.65 per hour (even though comparatively speaking, Ireland is extremely expensive compared to Berlin or Madrid... but still cheaper than BA.)

So yes, there are discount stores, but even the larger, traditional supermarket chains (Tesco and Sainsbury's in the UK, Carrefour in France, Safeway in the US) offer more choices and opportunities for savings than BA chains. They always offer a house brand, which is generally half the price of the name-brand equivalent. My housemate buys a 1.8 kilo rotisserie chicken for 6 euro at Tesco (at Disco, according to their website, a rotisserie chicken is $34 per kilo) and 500 grams of prepared potato salad for 1.50 (once again, at Disco, $18 per kilo.) I just bought 300 grams of fresh cod for 1.50 (on sale, originally 16 euro per kilo.) Honestly, other than "steak," I would love to find even one example of something -- of equivalent size and quality -- that is cheaper in Buenos Aires than in Europe or the US.

But in general, I found BsAs to cost around 1/3rd less across the board in the sorts of ways relevant to an itinerant visitor -- eating out, alcohol, transport. Some things, like taxis and the Subte, were far more than 1/3rd less.

Now, of course, I was not exposed to most structural, long-term expenses of living there, nor the joys of inflation. However, I do feel like I got a pretty good taste of what it's like to be a consumer there, and it's not bad, really

Yes, but like you said, your costs were relevant to being a visitor. A visitor thinking in dollar terms. If you think that "eating out and alcohol" translate into "a pretty good taste of what it's like to be a consumer," then I must strongly disagree. Most locals earning local salaries -- even good ones -- do not regularly go out to eat and do NOT go out to drink. And that, for me, is the issue here -- local salary vs. local expenses (not how far a foreign salary will stretch.)

 

[jb5]

That's food or a week? You have no protein in there and that's the expensive part!

I think we all agree that food in the supermarkets here has become more expensive than in most of Europe and the states. And that local salaries vs. local expenses is an ugly ratio. I don't know how the average Argentine affords to eat.

But it doesn't mean life on the whole is expensive here for expats. This board chases people away. Yet, if like many they can earn foreign currency while living here, BA remains a relative bargain for a major city. Rent alone is so much cheaper, whether you're looking for a small starter apartment or luxury, that the overall cost of life here compares favorably to life in major cities around the world. And with the peso headed due south on the parallel market given CFKs increasingly crazy acts, it will only get better for those with income from abroad.

If you're going to earn pesos, stay home!

 

[Aleina Dee]

Starlucia, you can find similar prices but you need to discount the items that are dependent on the Eurozone, no border zone ,cheap cargo rates and compare apples with apples.Once you discount all that you are also not left with much in the stores. Eg the UK is almost totally dependent on imports by air.
I don´t know if you remember, but as a kid we had to eat what was in season in Germany as there was no cheap airfreight and the trucks from Italy would be limited and their cargo expensive.
The second thing is that the shopping culture here is still different and people go to the bakers for bread,the butcher for meat and the chino for wine for example. Personally I like that and I find very good quality things in small shops at reasonable prices ("allowing" for inflation). I agree Buenos Aires is more expensive, but having lived in London one does not scare that easily. By changing shopping habits and eating habits you can live well,a matter of adaptation.

 

[Aleina Dee]

News just in - Carrefour on the road to buying Eki. The first discount store in Argentina or just more stores of the Carrefour Express type?

http://www.infobae.com/notas/646000-Carrefour-cerca-de-quedarse-con-la-cadena-Eki

 

[starlucia]

That's food or a week? You have no protein in there and that's the expensive part!

Hey, a meat-free lifestyle is cheaper no matter what part of the world you live in

I think we all agree that food in the supermarkets here has become more expensive than in most of Europe and the states. And that local salaries vs. local expenses is an ugly ratio. I don't know how the average Argentine affords to eat.

But it doesn't mean life on the whole is expensive here for expats. This board chases people away. Yet, if like many they can earn foreign currency while living here, BA remains a relative bargain for a major city.

But a good percentage of expats are earning a local salary. So the local wage-vs-expense ratio is relevant. For those who came down here to feel like high rollers on their foreign currencies -- and are willing to put up with a huge decrease in quality and service just to save a few bucks -- I agree, they don't have any right to complain.

 

[jb5]

Then we agree. Coming down here to work for local wages is insane. We employ Argentine software developers, some of the highest paid professionals in AR. But even they live in tiny apartments and watch what they spend for lunch.

 

[El chabon]

Not if your (g)f has her own appartment.

 

[nicoenarg]

Alex, now wait, hold on. I am pretty sure that you didn't mean to say you came here as a tourist and based on that experience you have a pretty good idea of how expensive or cheap Buenos Aires is...because that's what you sound like you're saying(?)

As for Atlanta, well, if we're going to talk about numbers and statistics, some of them put Atlanta as more expensive than the US average. But really, I don't care much about the averages and statistics because they do not give a fair indication of what the real numbers are as they affect each and every individual (don't get me wrong, you can't go around asking millions of people for their individual lives and how much they earn or spend, I am sure different averages help in making some decisions).

To back what I am saying, let me lay it out for you. Judging by the GDP per capita (nominal) of the US, you earn U$S48,500, compared to an Argentina who earns U$S11,000. Now that is a huge difference (about 300%, I might be off here, just woke up). So, I would say that you have no real idea of whether it is expensive or cheap seeing that you earn about 300% more than the average Joe (or Jose) here.

Also, coming here as a tourist and concluding that those of us who live here don't really know where to buy our crap. I would say that is a little arrogant, is it not? As for your statement that things might have gotten worse since November, 2011. Well they kinda have. Just a couple of examples:

I arrived here in January of this year, the eggs (half a dozen) at Vea (a supermarket) hovered around $3.59-$4.00 (this is Pesos, not Dollars), now they hover around $6.50-$7.00. Bananas were around $5.50-$6.00 and now they are around $7.50-$9.00. That is just two products off the top of my head. And the reason I mentioned that it was at Vea is because there are places that these things are cheaper and there are places these things are more expensive. So, I am sure if I went to a carniceria or verduleria(?) or whatever its called, I could get eggs for much cheaper. In fact, I used to get 30 eggs for 13 pesos. Then they shot up to 17 and now the store doesn't carry them anymore. Last time I bought the eggs from there, there were live worms in the container so I stopped buying from there but I used to notice the prices displayed outside changing for the worse just about every day.

No, the prices that I mentioned above do not mean that all of Argentina is forced to beg on street corners as their second job. It just means that the prices are shooting up and no one really knows the real inflation that is eroding this country.

I doubt anyone came here thinking, "woah, I used to be a thousand-aire and now I am a billionaire!" But it used to be cheaper, that is a fact. And I am not talking about 1800s either, I am talking about a couple of years ago.

Since we are comparing prices with other countries. My best friend and his wife live in Scotland. I was talking to them the other day and out of curiosity I asked them how much they spent on groceries. They said, if they go all out crazy on grocery shopping then they spend about 30 pounds a month. Which calculates to roughly 120 pounds for the both of them per month (they said 100 a month on average but I took higher figures into account). Today's exchange rate puts that at about 858 pesos. Let's round it off to 1000 pesos.

My wife and I spend around 2000 pesos a month on groceries. So already, Scotland is cheaper.

(Hey, based on this information alone, I can say that Scotland is half as expensive as Argentina. But you know that that wouldn't be fair either because of other expenses like rent, taxes and bills etc.)

When it comes to basic things like food and drinks, Argentina keeps on edging toward being more expensive than a lot of other countries in the world. And when we say that, we don't mean its Tokyo (I mean, why Tokyo really? Luanda is way more expensive and it looks like a craphole where people decided to shoot up prices of products to make themselves feel better about where they live), we just mean its freakin' expensive.

Having moved here from Dubai, food prices here used to be half of what they were in Dubai (and sometimes less than half) and now they are at the same level or more expensive (with the exception of vegetables). I used to earn 3 times as much as my wife earns here. That should give you an idea as well.

Lastly, I don't live in Palermo. I live in Almagro. You know, the modest neighborhood with little Argentine parillas, etc. So your argument that it is only people living in Palermo or Belgrano that are affected does not hold much water because I am in agreement with those living in Palermo and Belgrano. Things are getting more expensive every day. And it affects the expats and Argentines alike. This forum is just one place where people voice their concerns. Try talking to Argentines and you will realize that its not this forum that has it wrong but the goddam country is becoming more expensive by the day and that is a fact felt by most everyone here (except Cristina and other that have the luxury to steal things without consequences).

Alrighty, I am done for now.

Either all of you are making very exotic purchasing decisions, or something has changed radically in the last six months. I visited in November 2011 from Atlanta, which is by no means an expensive city by US standards (and has experienced considerable asset deflation as a result of the overall macroeconomic situation).

I found Buenos Aires rather cheap, even from a touristing persective. No, not very cheap--not like Perú cheap, or poor Central American country cheap, or other gringo fantasy where US$1 will go half a billion dollars far. Tough s___, BA is a major world capital, not a small village in Bolivia. But in general, I found BsAs to cost around 1/3rd less across the board in the sorts of ways relevant to an itinerant visitor -- eating out, alcohol, transport. Some things, like taxis and the Subte, were far more than 1/3rd less.

Now, of course, I was not exposed to most structural, long-term expenses of living there, nor the joys of inflation. However, I do feel like I got a pretty good taste of what it's like to be a consumer there, and it's not bad, really. I am more sympathetic to the arguments about poor quality and selection relative to price, especially in the area of apparel and appliances, but I also found some Industria Argentina wares much more durable, rather unlike the cheap, plastic crap that permeates every category of good in the US--the sort of thing we mean when we talk about planned obsolescence.

In any case, the situation did not seem worse than in any other Latin American capital I have been to, and in many respects, was a lot better. I think a lot of you who live in Palermo or Recoleta may be getting gouged on daily errands because of where you are. I stayed in San Telmo and had no sticker shock.

Otherwise, could it be that you lot are expecting BsAs to be so dramatically, magnitudinally cheaper than your home countries that you get angry and bitter when it falls short of your precise, desired ratio? Perhaps you came a few years after the corralito and have developed a bit of a sclerotic entitlement syndrome with regard to the prices you found when you first got there? I hear you loud and clear about inflation, economic mismanagement, crime, corruption, and import restrictions--the latter are most infuriating to me. However, if I didn't know better from personal experience, I would say the narrative being constructed here paints BsAs as a place with Tokyo prices and Kinshasa quality. Come on now.