Another "brilliant" pro business move by decree [again]

[Joe]

One could easily say the same about capitalism in light of the global financial crisis of 2008, no? If that isn't an example of system failure I don't know what is. While I wouldn't consider myself an advocate of the socialist system I don't see anything wrong with the socialist elements that are a part of developed societies such as Australia, Norway, Sweden etc. The same 1% that owns 40% of the US's wealth and told us that the banks on Wall Street who received a hefty bail out because "they were too big to fail", have always made it a point to demonize socialism and extol the virtues of capitalism. While ultimately I don't think socialism is a viable alternative, capitalism is by no means an infallible system.

What should be surprising is that there are not more people taking to the streets (at least in the US) and at the very least questioning the current system.

I agree with everything you are saying here. Capitalism leaves much to be desired. And the Scandinavian brand of socialism has been quite successful, but in Latin America it's always failed badly in my opinion.

 

[dr__dawggy]

Which is not true. See: roads, electricity, police, drinking water, HEALTH CARE, schools (in many countries), public transport (especially in Europe), etc etc. You have the "natural monopolies" (energy for example) whose privatization creates monsters such as Enron, and other monopolies in areas which are better served by the State since the search of profit goes against their purpose.

By the way, socialism is inevitable, the question is not if, but when. Political democracy emerged from the aristocratic system, and Economic democracy will do the same.

This assertion goes against the tides of history.

Perhaps you could point to a single example of a country in which socialism (aka political democracy) has survived--The entire soviet block crumbled. China has embraced capitalism. Now Cuba has approved a series of reforms that move them away from socialism and toward capitalism by encouraging more private initiative and cutting government spending and the number of government jobs.

 

[John.St]

I agree with everything you are saying here. Capitalism leaves much to be desired. And the Scandinavian brand of socialism has been quite successful, but in Latin America it's always failed badly in my opinion.

The Scandinavian politico-economic model isn't socialism as such, but capitalism within limits as opposed to the raw capitalism, which is seen in some other countries.

It's a kind of co-op or coalition between different - traditionally opposing - interests, something which is clearly demonstrated by the ease of doing bussiness in Scandinavia.

Economies are ranked on their ease of doing business, from 1 – 183:

USA 5
Denmark 6
Norway 8
Finland 13
Sweden 14

http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings

Many years ago Scandinavian capitalists realized that instead of "I eat my cake", cooperation between capital investments and highly educated and well paid workers (both white and blue collar) can create a cake so big, that the slice the capitalist receive is much bigger than "my cake". Win-Win.

 

[notebook.fix]

Let's no confuse Global Corporate Monopolies with Free Market Capitalism.

I think there's too much confusion around the term 'Capitalism'...what happened in 2008 is a result of corruption between government & the Wall street mafia. That's not Capitalism.. Monopolies that bribe governments have nothing to do with the free market capitalism that is constantly demonised by the extreme left .

The Doco 'The inside job' was another attempt at peddling this confusion "See what happens if we don't have big Social Government?- The Capitalist Monster will EAT you alive".

I agree with everything you are saying here. Capitalism leaves much to be desired. And the Scandinavian brand of socialism has been quite successful, but in Latin America it's always failed badly in my opinion.

 

[gouchobob]

I think there are several good points being made on capitalism vs. socialism. The societies were some socialist elements seem to work are those that keep a very healthy capitalist economic system that pays for the socialist elements. A command economy like China really isn't the same as a true capitalist country. In China they set a goal for GDP grow and then go out and find ways to make this happen. What happens over time the people who decide what projects get done to support the goal end up making more and more decisions that really don't make economic sense. This leads to massive miss-allocations of investments and eventually to much slower growth. This is exactly what's happening in China today in my opinion and is what did-in all the others like the old Soviet Union. In a capitalist economy GDP is simply the measure of economic activity achieved not the goal, a subtle but very big difference with command economies.

 

[MorganF]

The best summary of all politics, including the role of government.... the aquaduct scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSELOCMmw4A

 

[HenryNisental]

Talking about the Arg govmt taking over them: what did they pay for them? Where is the universal principle of no confiscation without compensation?
If they did not pay anything, what gives them rights in the companies where the AFJP´s had shares? Can they tomorrow take over my business too? or yours?

 

[Napoleon]

Looking at that link, Argentina is 115th.

Then again, Venezuela is 172nd, so there's still a long way to go.

(Bolivia is 149 & Ecuador is 130... so you could say that Argentina is the leader among its peers. Or in last place among its peers, depending on how you look at business.)

 

[kre8ivelyXposed]

The issues in Argentina are far too complex to offer a scathing indictment of either the capitalism or socialism economic models. In spite of Argentina's very proud "nationalistic" tendencies (in language "che boludo"! and say their fanaticism for everyone from Evita to Maradona and soccer etc for example), there is a wide distrust here of most all institutions and often times each other. You can't have a functioning society when no one trusts anyone (except family or close, intimate friends); the workforce and business climate are largely "functioning" but yet unproductive; and in spite of populist tendencies by the government and unions there is still a large ratio of "inequality" according to international indexes.
As to Capitalism, it really does not exist in its purest form even in the USA. The 2008 bailout of the US banking and investment communities as well as auto industry (ie. General Motors) was a perfect example of "socialism for the rich" and "capitalism for every one else." That is, we (the rich) make sure we are protected, and the rest of you will just have to suck it up and pay for that.

Trying watching the movie INSIDE JOB if you have not seen it. A very well done documentary on how greed is destroying the "wonderous" economy of "irrational exuberance" in the USA.

 

[ghost]

The issues in Argentina are far too complex to offer a scathing indictment of either the capitalism or socialism economic models. In spite of Argentina's very proud "nationalistic" tendencies (in language "che boludo"! and say their fanaticism for everyone from Evita to Maradona and soccer etc for example), there is a wide distrust here of most all institutions and often times each other. You can't have a functioning society when no one trusts anyone (except family or close, intimate friends); the workforce and business climate are largely "functioning" but yet unproductive; and in spite of populist tendencies by the government and unions there is still a large ratio of "inequality" according to international indexes.
As to Capitalism, it really does not exist in its purest form even in the USA. The 2008 bailout of the US banking and investment communities as well as auto industry (ie. General Motors) was a perfect example of "socialism for the rich" and "capitalism for every one else." That is, we (the rich) make sure we are protected, and the rest of you will just have to suck it up and pay for that.

Trying watching the movie INSIDE JOB if you have not seen it. A very well done documentary on how greed is destroying the "wonderous" economy of "irrational exuberance" in the USA.

Yes, just check out the graph on the numbers that do not get published.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011...topstories+(Top+Stories)&utm_content=My+Yahoo