Another crisis 1999-2002
- Thread starter El chabon
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Davidglen77
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El chabon said:
I really find it hard to fathom that there are people who actually believe that immigrants are responsible for these ills of society. How about blaming the politics of the current administration that create conditions where people have to resort to what are illegal ways of earning a living to survive? When things go wrong it's easy to blame the people in the lower social strata; instead of identifying the underlying conditions and working on those issues.
Davidglen77 said:
Where did I say they are responsible?
It's quite easy, having no immigration policy(like Argentina basically has) is a lack of respect for the citizen of the country who are paying the bill with there taxes.
Most native Argentines have loads of sympathy for Argentines but very little or none for foreigners from other South American countries.
Bajo_cero2
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El chabon said:
Are you saying that immigrants are criminals?
El chabon said:
You know, I just couldn't help but take exception with this.
My wife and her family are Paraguayan, who came to Argentina "regularly" (that is, they are not in an irregular status, being legal residents), who hold DNIs and therefore contribute taxes and BTW, DON'T live in the villas. I do make exception for two brothers and a cousin who came within the last few weeks, who have their appointment at immigrations but can't work in the white until they have it. But they don't live in the villas either and will be working in the white soon enough.
People who don't hold DNIs are not immigrants. That includes "gringos" who come here and live as perma-tourists and visit public hospitals and take advantage of other services without paying taxes.
All of the above are not citizens and do not vote. I don't know any residents from Paraguay who have citizenship. I'm sure there are some, but I would be willing to guarantee that those who have obtained citizenship are reasonably productive members of society, by Argentine standards. I have heared a rumor that people with residency with other Mercosur country citizenship were required to vote, but no one I know does. Bajo_cero, could you comment on the ability for non-citizens to vote?
I have extreme differences of opinion on how Argentina works in many ways, but I really don't like the prejudice that attaches itself to Paraguayans and other poor people who come here to find work, both from Argentines and foreigners. The one thing I do like is that Argentina welcomes immigrants (at least in theory, although many Argentines are quite discriminatory against these people, I've seen it with my own eyes), unlike other countries who were once built on immigrants but now turn them away, to the point where I can't even get my wife a tourist visa to the US, and have to go through a lengthy and costly process of a spouse visa if I wanted to just visit my folks (when I don't live in the US and don't plan to any time soon). My folks are old. My father's dying of cancer. Neither of them have ever met my wife. Great policy we have where it's easier to get in illegally across a border than it is for a US citizen to get his wife a tourist visa. Really helps the situation a lot.
There are narcos in the US - look at what happens along the Mexican border. There are putas there too - many of them US citizens. And it doesn't really matter what the US says about immigration, there are millions of illegals there as well.
Here, Argentina recognizes more freedoms than the US even - it's in the constitution that it is a woman's right to do with her body as she pleases (as well as a man's right as well). It's the absolute height of tyranny and prudishness to try to tell a woman that she can't charge for services rendered just because it involves sexual services, as opposed to other physical services such as massages, for example.
Unfortunately, their economic policies and lack of adherence to the rule of law over time doesn't provide many opportunities for actual advancement in my opinion, but that's a different argument. Irrelevant and relative as well, as those who come to work are better off here in many cases than where they came from.
Just as with Mexicans in the States who come to work, legally or illegally, most are reasonably productive members of society.
In fact, just about everyone you mentioned above are irregular here and have no say in the laws and regulations of this country. Like in the US, yes, among their group are the people who cause a lot of crime (but not all - plenty of Argentinos are included in that group as well), but as we can see, even in a country like the US immigration laws don't really have much to do with who is actually in the country illegally (or irregularly in Argentina's case) and causing the problems.
If the US would have the same (non-existant) immigration laws as Argentina, the American would soon be a foreigner in his/her own country.
No country in the world is helped with immigrants that are not productive for there new adaptive country. It only helps Cristina and her maffia gang of lawyers and politicans to hold onto power.
No country in the world is helped with immigrants that are not productive for there new adaptive country. It only helps Cristina and her maffia gang of lawyers and politicans to hold onto power.
El chabon said:
In what way? How is it that the people who are here without any recognized regular status actually help Cristina? Again, they can't vote. Those who are citizens and can vote are almost certainly, by a large percentage, productive members.
ElQueso said:
Your thinking that no foreigner coming to live in Argentina becomes a citizen?
1 milion people who entered in the patria grande are or are now becoming citizens.
I would like to see how many naturalized citizen there are in Argentina and how many % voted for Cristina, that must have been atleast 80%, and that is probally a low guess.
Requisitos:
• Ser mayor de dieciocho años.
• Tener dos años de residencia ininterrumpida y documentada en el país, certificada por la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones.
Documentación Exigida:
• Partida de nacimiento legalizada por el consulado argentino en el país de origen.
• Fotocopia de D.N.I., cédula, pasaporte.
• Certificado de domicilio original.
• Justificación de medios de vida: contrato de trabajo, certificado de trabajo actual o recibo de sueldo. En caso de ser autónomo, fotocopia de comprobante de aportes.
And yeah really complicated. Foreigners(most of them who also recieve social plans) are just a really big supportbase of Cristina and it will keep on supplying her with votes
• Ser mayor de dieciocho años.
• Tener dos años de residencia ininterrumpida y documentada en el país, certificada por la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones.
Documentación Exigida:
• Partida de nacimiento legalizada por el consulado argentino en el país de origen.
• Fotocopia de D.N.I., cédula, pasaporte.
• Certificado de domicilio original.
• Justificación de medios de vida: contrato de trabajo, certificado de trabajo actual o recibo de sueldo. En caso de ser autónomo, fotocopia de comprobante de aportes.
And yeah really complicated. Foreigners(most of them who also recieve social plans) are just a really big supportbase of Cristina and it will keep on supplying her with votes
