Anyone else having problems getting dollars in?

[mmoon]

I forget sometimes that many expats on this forum weren’t in Argentina in 2001 and some may not even know what happened then to the economy and the people. The government will force you to convert and keep your money in pesos which will be devalued. They will restrict your access to them. They will charge you for spending money with your credit cards and bank accounts outside of the country. They will change the rules and requirements faster than you can keep up. They will crush your hope and spirit until you give up. They are out to save themselves. I would really hate for anyone to be deluded about this fact and end up losing their savings, their retirement, or any chunk of their hard earned money just because the people in power don’t know how to balance the books and stop massive corruption. We had friends who lost 75% of their savings in the 2001 corralito. It can happen again. If you can keep a significant chunk of your money outside of Argentina, do it and do it now. I am not an alarmist but I am very alarmed.

 

[artisans]

I forget sometimes that many expats on this forum weren’t in Argentina in 2001 and some may not even know what happened then to the economy and the people. The government will force you to convert and keep your money in pesos which will be devalued. They will restrict your access to them. They will charge you for spending money with your credit cards and bank accounts outside of the country. They will change the rules and requirements faster than you can keep up. They will crush your hope and spirit until you give up. They are out to save themselves. I would really hate for anyone to be deluded about this fact and end up losing their savings, their retirement, or any chunk of their hard earned money just because the people in power don’t know how to balance the books and stop massive corruption. We had friends who lost 75% of their savings in the 2001 corralito. It can happen again. If you can keep a significant chunk of your money outside of Argentina, do it and do it now. I am not an alarmist but I am very alarmed.

Thanks for the perspective and the warnings. Hard to hear but one cannot ignore as these problems, not as severe, but are all ready surfacing. Time to adapt strategies to limit exposure and 'take care of the cow'.

 

[camberiu]

Anyone else having problems getting dollars in?

Being able to easily hold and be paid in dollars in Argentina is not the normal state of things. When it happens, it is due to a temporary glitch. But the system tend to fix itself pretty quick.

 

[toongeorges]

In the end this all destroys the economy. As a foreigner, why would I even care to invest in Argentina, if it is after my money that has no relationship with the country? I am happy to regularly visit as a tourist and keep my capital outside Argentina's control.

Argentines could be tricked in a corralito once before, but now they are prepared and already have their dollars outside the country or the economy this time. Trying the forced devaluation trick only strengthens Argentines' conviction that they should get all their money out of the economy. The capital controls won't restore the economy, but destroy it. Why do people in government keep believing that stealing works?

 

[d.gray]

Without a doubt it is getting strange and strained. I'm with HSBC. I've made U$ bank transfers from US in the past to my U$ account at HSBC Argentina. At that time received an e-mail to confirm the purpose. The funds then deposited, a large fee was charged. Bank manager had to make a reclamo to lower the fee to their 0.2% or so of the transfer amount.
Last week transferred dollars anew, a new type of e-mail instruction now to download and complete a 6 page form, sign every page, return the doc. One bank manager was completely undone, giving me useless or erroneous advice. Another one took charge and filed the 6 page document. On the ball.
My U$ wire deposited to the U$ account at HSBC Arg. The local bank transfer fee this time was charged in pesos to my peso account.
Today, looking to convert the U$ to pesos - I was unable to do so on the HSBC phone app, at my online bank account, at the ATM. Finally the bank manager got the conversion done for me by telephone. I had managed to get in the door of the bank at 5 min til 3 pm. When the lock the doors. Harrowing experience. One bank manager's excuse was a casual 'This is Argentina'.
I have a 2nd wire transfer in U$ to HSBC Arg that has been received here but not credited yet. Vamos a ver tomorrow.
I should add I am transferring my pension funds. Am not a Freelancer. This may be why they're allowing a U$ transfer to go into my local U$ account.

Yeah I think you're right about pensions, I think they are allowed to remain in dollars. But if you're exporting a service (e.g. a freelancer), you have to transfer the money into the country and it will be changed into pesos.

The big problem for me with this is that they have only given a limit of 5 days from getting paid in my foreign account to transferring the money to Argentina (even in the bad old days of 2014-15 it was 10 days). That means I often can't group together all my payments and send them as one to save on fees. Different banks seem to have different processes, but it seems that some are asking for proof that you received the money in the last 5 days when you present the form, so not much way around it.

I've so far had to make 2 transfers and have just found out that the first has some kind of error. Comex (Galicia) are not answering their phones or replying to emails because they're swamped. Might have to take a trip downtown to speak in person.

 

[d.gray]

I just read a useful article on this issue for anyone exporting services which explains what's going on (Spanish):

El que factura dólares ¿cobra dólares?: cómo los profesionales pueden saltar cepo a la venta de servicios al exterior

Paso a paso, cómo son los nuevos procedimientos y las claves a tener en cuenta tras la vuelta del "cepo" para los trabajadores freelance

www.iproup.com

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Que Macri diga si es K!

 

[artisans]

Yeah I think you're right about pensions, I think they are allowed to remain in dollars. But if you're exporting a service (e.g. a freelancer), you have to transfer the money into the country and it will be changed into pesos.
The big problem for me with this is that they have only given a limit of 5 days from getting paid in my foreign account to transferring the money to Argentina (even in the bad old days of 2014-15 it was 10 days). That means I often can't group together all my payments and send them as one to save on fees. Different banks seem to have different processes, but it seems that some are asking for proof that you received the money in the last 5 days when you present the form, so not much way around it.
I've so far had to make 2 transfers and have just found out that the first has some kind of error. Comex (Galicia) are not answering their phones or replying to emails because they're swamped. Might have to take a trip downtown to speak in person.

I don't know how your business works - services provided and where your customers are located and channel used for getting paid, but is it possible to have your payments go to a bank in a country outside of Argentina where you can aggregate your earnings and then wire them as you need them, at your convenience, to your Argentina bank account?

 

[d.gray]

I don't know how your business works - services provided and where your customers are located and channel used for getting paid, but is it possible to have your payments go to a bank in a country outside of Argentina where you can aggregate your earnings and then wire them as you need them, at your convenience, to your Argentina bank account?

That would be ideal, and is in fact what I was doing before the new rules were brought in (not wiring them in, but using services like TransferWise). There was no obligation to exchange foreign earnings in the local market until September 1st. (At least, for the last 3 years or so.) Now, the rules are clear: if you receive a payment for a service in a bank account in another country, you have 5 days to 'liquidar' the money in the local market.

So if you want to do everything right, you have to make a transfer every time you receive a payment (unless you get two payments in at the same time). For someone like me who has a lot of clients all making relatively small payments, it's a disaster. If they extended the time from 5 days to a month, I could transfer them all over as one.

Even worse, the money doesn't just go straight to your account like it did up until a couple of weeks ago. They've got rid of that. Now you have to go to the bank every time you receive a transfer. Two of my transfers are now held up and I can't get my pesos. It's a nightmare.

The crazy thing is, the whole reason behind this is that they want to get more dollars in the market ... so they've gone and made it more difficult to bring dollars here. Brilliant. Loads of people like me are just going to start not declaring their earnings. That's not ideal as I quite like everything to be en blanco.

 

[artisans]

That would be ideal, and is in fact what I was doing before the new rules were brought in (not wiring them in, but using services like TransferWise). There was no obligation to exchange foreign earnings in the local market until September 1st. (At least, for the last 3 years or so.) Now, the rules are clear: if you receive a payment for a service in a bank account in another country, you have 5 days to 'liquidar' the money in the local market.
So if you want to do everything right, you have to make a transfer every time you receive a payment (unless you get two payments in at the same time). For someone like me who has a lot of clients all making relatively small payments, it's a disaster. If they extended the time from 5 days to a month, I could transfer them all over as one.
Even worse, the money doesn't just go straight to your account like it did up until a couple of weeks ago. They've got rid of that. Now you have to go to the bank every time you receive a transfer. Two of my transfers are now held up and I can't get my pesos. It's a nightmare.
The crazy thing is, the whole reason behind this is that they want to get more dollars in the market ... so they've gone and made it more difficult to bring dollars here. Brilliant. Loads of people like me are just going to start not declaring their earnings. That's not ideal as I quite like everything to be en blanco.

Interesting indeed. Whoever in Argentina came up with that scheme deserves the Bozo of the Year award - from the brigade of "Badges?! we don't need no stinking badges" comes to mind. If you wanted to create a situation that forces people to find ways to go around the corner that would be example A. I noticed that the Chinese are always in a struggle to outwit their government schemes.
Well, this falls under rule #1 "I ain't dying' for no white man". There are ways to go around and if I was in your shoes I'd be looking for them. The Facebook Bangkok Expat group would seem to be a resource. And maybe, devote X dollars to participate in the white, enough to not raise suspicions, and run the rest by other means. Rule #2 in matters like this is "Take care of yourself first and don't be anybody's fool. Suerte!