Argentina is expensive. Really don't know how middle class here get by

I think it is an error to try to compare a developing country against a 1st world country. In terms of income, structure, commercial expansion, access to goods and services, GDP those set a big difference. It is just pointless. I could understand your frustration if you had moved to Germany and were in shock, but moving from the US to Argentina, in the middle of an economic crash and comparing the two is a mistake in my opinion. I believe you are not even in BsAs but in Rosario, so the change would be even more noticeable. Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands there are countries that are far superior to the US in terms of quality of life and access to quality goods. Having been to the US many times, I don't think most people eat quality food, organic, etc. It might seem like that if you live in SF, other west coast cities, NY - and it is an elite really. If you refer to elite class living, I am sure in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, etc they have access to even better goods and services and luxury items.

Sorry, I am not really trying to -- although I realize my post before does just that -- compare the US to Argentina in the sense of availability of luxury goods. I don't expect Argentina to have the same luxury goods as the US, Germany, Norway, etc... It is just that the Argentina is cheaper -- but it is cheaper in part because the quality of the goods are lower. So, in the end, is Argentina really that much cheaper than the US? And I ask not because I am trying to figure out whether it is viable to live in Argentina as an expat or whether the US is a better place to live than Argentina. It isn't about judgment.

It is just curiosity about how this country works -- there is extreme poverty of course (like the US) and extreme wealth (like the US). But for the people in between -- how does life work here? I bring up the example of doctors because, in Los Angeles, a doctor makes $200k-$1MM depending on the specialty and practice. In Argentina, a doctor makes less than $50k. But the prices for things seem roughly the same. Who are all these people renting these fancy apartments, shopping at fancy name-brand clothing stores, etc...? Where does their money come from? Because as far as I can tell, there does not seem to be a functioning upper middle class/lower upper class of high-salary earners that can afford the expensive cars, apartments, clothes, private schools, etc...

I work for a non-Argentinian company, am paid in USD, and do not feel like I am "living like a king". My standard of living is pretty much the same as in the US except that here I can afford an around the clock housekeeper and nanny because labor costs here are much, much, much lower. But when I go buy .... say ... a pair of shorts at the store for the equivalent of $40, I recognize that spending $40 on a pair of shorts is *a lot* of money, maybe out of reach, for the majority of Argentinians. But the clothing store's only customers can't possibly be a bunch of expats. So how does the clothing store survive? Who are its customers?
 
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Contrary to all my expectations, this thread is actually getting quite interesting and nuanced. Nice :=)
 
Well, virtually nobody in Argentina has a mortgage.
But, certainly, a lot of people, in fact, "most", pay rent.
Be they Argentine or Expat, they pay rent.

Certainly, I know a lot of argentines who live in family owned apartments rent free- but they are far from "most".
I know a fair amount of younger people from the art and music scenes- and they almost all pay rent.
With guarantias, they pay much less rent than an expat would, and many have what you would consider below market deals on rent, due to family connections, long time rentals, or living in unfashionable neighborhoods- but they pay rent.
Outside of Palermo or Recoleta, rents and sales prices are much less.

What amazes me is how much they spend on beer.
Artesenal beer is not cheap here- 150 pesos a pinta is not uncommon these days. And there are new beer joints popping up every week, and they are all full.
 
Some things are cheaper and some things are not. Rent is cheaper for me here than it would be in a city in the UK (although not really by much), taxis and Uber are cheaper, as is public transport. On the whole, I find Argentina more expensive than the UK. I am paid in dollars too so can compare the two countries directly and I spend more in Argentina to live than I did/would in the UK. Of course, I also lose many of the benefits that living in a more developed country bring as well. I also wonder when I am in a mall how people here afford what they buy. Perhaps a constant juggling act with credit cards spreading payments over months? While we can debate whether its expensive or not, I think it is safe to say value for money is a very rare thing in Argentina.
 
Because a lot of things are upside down in Arg, having the equivalent to a masters degree, and very high levels of education would not guarantee that you will be making very good money in dollar terms here. This is the reason why some professionals and scientists leave the country. The ones that remain get creative and usually have more than one job at a time. Populism and some unions caused an imbalance between professionals and workers who sometimes earn a lot more in money terms.

So when you wonder how do they do it, bare in mind that a lot of people have more than 2 jobs, or a regular job and a side project, etc.

Argentina is cheap for expats due to recent devaluation of about 100%. It is certainly not cheap for locals, earning pesos and having goods and services tied to dollar rates.

A maid or nanny are affordable, until you get sued. You need to be very aware of labor rights and how this work in Argentina. This is one of the big reasons why a lot of foreign companies are reluctant about investing here.

Some people buy nicer clothes or brand name clothes at malls, etc and they are expensive, but a much larger number buy no name clothes in smaller stores, fairs, etc. I actually got myself 4 t shirts @ 250 pesos each ( nice quality, don't shrink, etc )

Middle-middle class does not have the same mindset and expectations than their middle class peers have in the US: they rent or own their home because they inherited it mostly, they go on vacation a lot of the times sharing the cost of renting a vacation house with another family or two their friends with, or with relatives, so they split the costs. They like to go out to restaurants, but are equally happy if they can cook a nice asado at home and chill with friends. They might do the fancy restaurant thing for an anniversary, etc, but in hard times such as these, they will just go for a coffee when they go out.

We have been through so many crisis that people are used to adapting to getting less for their money.

Many single middle class people in their lat 20s or even 30s still live with their families, so they can spend some more on clothes and entertainment.

They overall quality of a lot of the goods and services that are locally produced in general is not good, but mediocre. There are many exceptions. If you talk deeply with some small industry owners, you will understand why: they do not invest, they try to profit as much as they can selling crappy stuff because they know the country is unstable, one day you get flooded with imports, the next imports are banned and you can only buy local stuff. So if the later they make money, when it turns around they all go broke ( current case scenario )

A lot of the upper middle class here are land owners, that are involved in one way or another in exports. So they buy expensive cars and properties. You also have actors, politicians, judges, sport players, narcos, and friends of those in charge of the administration, that get the chance to work for the federal administration or get juicy contracts to provide services in one way or another.

Hope I was able to shed some light.



Sorry, I am not really trying to -- although I realize my post before does just that -- compare the US to Argentina in the sense of availability of luxury goods. I don't expect Argentina to have the same luxury goods as the US, Germany, Norway, etc... It is just that the Argentina is cheaper -- but it is cheaper in part because the quality of the goods are lower. So, in the end, is Argentina really that much cheaper than the US? And I ask not because I am trying to figure out whether it is viable to live in Argentina as an expat or whether the US is a better place to live than Argentina. It isn't about judgment.

It is just curiosity about how this country works -- there is extreme poverty of course (like the US) and extreme wealth (like the US). But for the people in between -- how does life work here? I bring up the example of doctors because, in Los Angeles, a doctor makes $200k-$1MM depending on the specialty and practice. In Argentina, a doctor makes less than $50k. But the prices for things seem roughly the same. Who are all these people renting these fancy apartments, shopping at fancy name-brand clothing stores, etc...? Where does their money come from? Because as far as I can tell, there does not seem to be a functioning upper middle class/lower upper class of high-salary earners that can afford the expensive cars, apartments, clothes, private schools, etc...

I work for a non-Argentinian company, am paid in USD, and do not feel like I am "living like a king". My standard of living is pretty much the same as in the US except that here I can afford an around the clock housekeeper and nanny because labor costs here are much, much, much lower. But when I go buy .... say ... a pair of shorts at the store for the equivalent of $40, I recognize that spending $40 on a pair of shorts is *a lot* of money, maybe out of reach, for the majority of Argentinians. But the clothing store's only customers can't possibly be a bunch of expats. So how does the clothing store survive? Who are its customers?
 
Well, virtually nobody in Argentina has a mortgage.
But, certainly, a lot of people, in fact, "most", pay rent.
Be they Argentine or Expat, they pay rent.

Certainly, I know a lot of argentines who live in family owned apartments rent free- but they are far from "most".
I know a fair amount of younger people from the art and music scenes- and they almost all pay rent.
With guarantias, they pay much less rent than an expat would, and many have what you would consider below market deals on rent, due to family connections, long time rentals, or living in unfashionable neighborhoods- but they pay rent.
Outside of Palermo or Recoleta, rents and sales prices are much less.

What amazes me is how much they spend on beer.
Artesenal beer is not cheap here- 150 pesos a pinta is not uncommon these days. And there are new beer joints popping up every week, and they are all full.
No you got it the Wrong way around, .... MOST people in Argentina don't pay rent ( the Millennial sector maybe) MOST people here buy outright with
HARD CASH !! they exist in this expensive country because they have no BIG monthly Mortgage or rent payments to make .
 
Actually you are right- I just found this study from 2012 that says 70% of Argentines own their homes.
http://www.depeco.econo.unlp.edu.ar/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/doc91.pdf

I would not have guessed this- but I do agree that the lack of mortgage payments is probably the only way the middle class here survives.
If you miss one payment in the USA, it can quickly snowball into not only losing your home, but bankruptcy as well.

The other big factor is medical costs.
Although it is slow, the free medical care you can get in Argentina still prevents bankruptcy and homelessness, which is the exact opposite of the USA.
I have a son in the US who is on Obamacare. That means I pay $130USD a month for his subsidized insurance. He had an injury this fall, and the surgery and medical costs are currently at about $6000 USD out of pocket, with more to come, and he could not work for 2 months. This is AFTER the subsidies and the reduced costs of the ACA.
If that happened here, half the population would be living in Villa 31.
 
The Millennials are up to their waists in it ... so to speak, As Nikad pointed out it is common for them to live at home with parents until their late twenties,
It is true that this age group from 30yrs - 40yrs is the cause for the expanding rental sector in Argentina,
40yrs - 50yrs is where you start to get transfer of family wealth - inheritance etc. Again with virtually no inheritance tax, this is what has kept this country running.
 
A big survival factor here are the extensive family and friends networks normal in Argentina, and the services they provide almost free of cost. Vacations at a relative's home, medical care in a public hospital where a friend works as an orderly, groceries bought at discounted prices in a cousin's almacen, free babysitting and eldercare provided by grandmothers, third cousins, cousins-in-law, clothes made/altered by a relative handy with the sewing machine, free clothes outgrown by a friend's children, etc.

Here, EVERYBODY pitches in - that's the way Argentines survive without the help of institutions existing in more developed countries.

Economically developed as they certainly are, they may also be socially and emotionally underdeveloped. Better to for an elder to live and be cared for by a loving relative, than to be an inmate in the best Senior Assisted Living facility.
 
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