Argentine citizenship for foreigners?

[Amargo]

Well, I don't know exactly if that what happened in Argentina - the killing of left militants- can be called technically a genocide. According to Wikipedia not certainly:

Una matanza por motivos de ideologías está en debate, pero no está firmemente considerado como genocidio.

Surely it was a crime. Many now seem to forget all the people who fell victims to the extremist left militants. No one talks about them now. Which is a shame.
Are those victims computed among the 9000 listed by the CONADEP?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Well, I don't know exactly if that what happened in Argentina - the killing of left militants- can be called technically a genocide. According to Wikipedia not certainly:



Surely it was a crime. Many now seem to forget all the people who fell victims to the extremist left militants. No one talks about them now. Which is a shame.
Are those victims computed among the 9000 listed by the CONADEP?

This is off topic, don´t highjack the tread, regards

 

[Napoleon]

This is a the thread about Foreigners obtaining (or trying to obtain) Argentine Citizenship.

Stick to the topic or start another thread.

Thanks,

The Readership

 

[deadlegs]

I am the mother of an Argentine child and am looking to apply for either permanent residency or citizenship. Is there a difference in the documents that I need to provide to apply for residency compared with citizenship, if so what are they, also are there any downsides to getting citizenship. I am not worried about Dual citizenship - i mean more taxes, social responsibilities etc. I have lived here permanantly now for more than 2 years. Any help would be brilliant. Thank you.

 

[deadlegs]

Also my husband is foreign as well. Can he apply at the same time as me as the childs father or once I have citizenship does he get the right to apply based on him being my husband?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I am the mother of an Argentine child and am looking to apply for either permanent residency or citizenship. Is there a difference in the documents that I need to provide to apply for residency compared with citizenship, if so what are they, also are there any downsides to getting citizenship. I am not worried about Dual citizenship - i mean more taxes, social responsibilities etc. I have lived here permanantly now for more than 2 years. Any help would be brilliant. Thank you.

I asume you have no DNI in my reply.
On reply 186 you can see what the Federal Judges are asking if you want to do the procedure without a lawyer. If you full fit them all, you can do it alone.

Otherwise you need a lawyer specilized in applying for citizenship being irregular.

In that case you only need your and your spounse´s passport and the birth certificate of your child, police address certificate and to evidence you have an honest way of living. Regarding the honest way of life, how to evidence it depends, we should talk about it, send me a pm for a free consultation.

The citizenship procedure is like a criminal investigation where the judge investigate your background, so, you don´t need to provide your criminal record (in fact it is forbidden to accept it) and you don´t need to translate or apostille the evidence you show like passport, bank statements, etc.

The birth certificate isn´t needed but it is better to have it to make the power attorney.

Once you have an Argentinian child you can apply the day after he or she was born even if you have 2 days in this country.

Usually the procedure takes about 1 year. In the case of having an Argentinian child I am (pushing the envelope) asking to do not order the investigation about your background in order to save time because according to Supreme Court they have to grant you with citizenship even you have a criminal sentence against you. This way it might takes 3 months instead of 1 year.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Also my husband is foreign as well. Can he apply at the same time as me as the childs father or once I have citizenship does he get the right to apply based on him being my husband?

He is entitle to citizenship becouse he is the father.
Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

The citizenship procedure is like a criminal investigation where the judge investigate your background, so, you don´t need to provide your criminal record (in fact it is forbidden to accept it) and you don´t need to translate or apostille the evidence you show like passport, bank statements, etc.

This is very interesting. Does the judge actually perform some kind of audit (referring to the bank statements) or check with the applicant's employer to verify "legal" means of living?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

This is very interesting. Does the judge actually perform some kind of audit (referring to the bank statements) or check with the applicant's employer to verify "legal" means of living?

Well, your question is deeper than you might think because this is regarding how do they value the evidence.

The judges are asking certified signature of the employer in the working certificate. This is regarding legal working (en blanco) but it makes no sense in a country where even 60% of the citizens works en negro.

So, if you can´t full fit this requirement this has to be debated. Take a look at the prosecutor opinion I posted were I won this debate. Now I have 2 cases at the chamber where I am debating the same, that trabajo en negro is honest working. I had a meeting with the prosecutor and he said he agreed with me. The judges are deciding right now about this subject, so in the next 45 days I might have an answer.

Regarding the way they value it. I propose that regarding you are innocent and the procedure is like a criminal procedure, the judge has to destroy you innocency. So, this means:
1) He can reject you case only if he is 100% sure you have a dishonest way of living
2) He must grant you with citizenship if:
a) he is 100% sure you way of living is honest
b) there is probability
c) there is doubt.

When they ask for legal evidence they are using 1), so this is wrong!
In your case they are using 1) but if you can full fit the standard they ask, it is ok.

It is difficult to explain it in a plain way. I used to teach evidence at University, so the argumentation is complex even among lawyers.

is it more or less understandable?

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

is it more or less understandable?

Yes, I think so. I am not too concerned about the documentation of my income. Migraciones accepted a letter from my US bank (every year for three years) that verrified monthly deposits from R. H. Baird and my ability to withdraw funds from AATMs in Argentina and a letter from my Argentine accountant verrifying my ATM withdrawals (he required that I provide the receipts). They accepted this in lieu of Argentine bank statements and they never asked to see my U.S. bank statements or the annual reports from Baird. My accountant did not want me to withdraw the funds from my US bank aat ATM's and deposit them in a bank here as he thought I might be subject to taxation on those funds twice in Argentina if I did so. Migraciones had a translated and legalized copy of the "irrevocable" bank trust from the beginning.

I don't think this would work at migraciones today. When I was renewing my visa there was a stipulation (on the migraciones website) that if the funds entered Argentina were in a foreign currency that an Argentine accountant had to certify the Peso amount of the ingressos, but I don't think it's there now. Though migraciones no longer accepted ATM receipts (if you took them the originals) for the visa renewals, they accepted the certification from my accountant. This just goes to show that if you ask the folks at migraciones a simple question ("Are ATM receipts acceptable as proof of foreign income?" you will get a simple answer ("no"), but when I presented a leagalized doccument that "satisfied" them the answer was yes.

I recently had my Argentine accountant write a similar letter for the Juzgado Federal. The secretary in the office today thought the letter was fine.