Argentine re-immigration

[perry]

This is just very wrong information!

Yes Ghost and ? I suggest that you read the post carefully instead of replying with a one line aclamation.

I stated that Argentina has the highest minimum wages of Latin America in Blanco . I never said that Argentinian professionals earnt the best wages as I am very aware that in Chile and Brazil wages are higher for professional brackets.

I stated that the unemployment rate is lower in Argentina compared to Southern Europe and South America. I never said all of Europe and my post implied Spain, Italy , and Greece . Of course Germany, France and most of Northern Europe is different with lower unemployment than Argentina. Spain is close to 25 percent unemployment atm a hardly enviable figure.

I know that in Uruguay, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay and most of Latin America there is higher unemployment than here. It does not take any rocket science to work this out if you consider the 4 million illegal immigrants now living in Argentina. They came because clearly Argentina offers them better oportunities.

In regards to the question at hand it is obvious that Spain where many Argentinians moved to in the last 10 years is in worse shape than here employment wise . I have spoken to many a people and they are returning and if you have some time Ghost read the posts here from your own fellow argentinians who have said exactly the same thing that Spain is not what it is cracked up to be .

Still we have this myth that Argentinians are dying to leave for sunnier shores but where is the proof ?

 

[gouchobob]

Here is immigration to and from Argentina in a nut-shell.

"Argentina has evolved from a leading immigrant destination in the early 20th century to a country with a dualistic migration environment: it attracts predominantly regional immigrants while experiencing emigration flows of mainly young, highly skilled natives. Immigration flows are both circular and permanent and, for the most part, fill the low-skilled, low-wage labor demand in both rural and urban settings. "

The full piece is in the following link: http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?ID=374

In other words most immigration into Argentina are low skilled workers for low pay jobs. Educated and skilled workers leave for better opportunities elsewhere. Whether or not a few are returning from Spain today because of their current difficulties is not that relevant. The trend over last 20 years is what counts. There has clearly been a brain drain going on for a long time of the bright and educated leaving for greener pastures. If there has been any decline in the exodus it will only be temporary until things improve here.

 

[perry]

There was a trend from 1998 to 2007 for skilled argentine workers , professionals to emigrate to Europe, USA and Canada. After the crash in 2001 there was a huge community that moved to Miami USA for example and they are returning back to Argentina in sizeable numbers.

I know that in the last 2 years there has been a sizeable increase of professionals returning to Buenos Aires from Europe and the USA. I have five personal friends who have moved back from Miami since 2007 and they are all professionals. And what about the 30000 foreign expats who have taken residency in the last years they are not educated professionals?

There is clearly a trend of skilled migrants trying to enter Argentina . Lawyers who specialise in immigration clearly state that business is better than for a very long time. I HOPE THIS IS CLEAR THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO ARGENTINA NON SKILLED AND SKILLED THAN FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS .......

I see them every day in my work and have read many articles on this topic .

Please show me the statistics Gouchobob that since 2007 that this is not the case?

 

[LAtoBA]

I know that in the last 2 years there has been a sizeable increase of professionals returning to Buenos Aires from Europe and the USA.

This coincides well the global financial crisis/recession. No?

I graduated last year from a graduate program in international affairs (international business more specifically), and I can tell you that many in my class wanted to work in the private sector outside of the US. What we quickly discovered is that not only did countries become more protectionist in trade, but in employment as well. The same can be said for my international classmates who had hoped of procuring a work visa and staying in the US. In fact one of my german classmates recently had to return home because very few companies were willing to go through the motions of issuing a work visa and in part because of a nationalist sentiments.

So imo what you state above isn't that surprising. Until international markets improve, professionals, in particular young professionals, will be returning "home"....whether that's BAs, the US, or Europe. Unless of course they're willing to work almost for free abroad, like me . Speaking of which I really need to find another part time gig ASAP!

 

[gouchobob]

There was a trend from 1998 to 2007 for skilled argentine workers , professionals to emigrate to Europe, USA and Canada. After the crash in 2001 there was a huge community that moved to Miami USA for example and they are returning back to Argentina in sizeable numbers.

I know that in the last 2 years there has been a sizeable increase of professionals returning to Buenos Aires from Europe and the USA. I have five personal friends who have moved back from Miami since 2007 and they are all professionals. And what about the 30000 foreign expats who have taken residency in the last years they are not educated professionals?

There is clearly a trend of skilled migrants trying to enter Argentina . Lawyers who specialise in immigration clearly state that business is better than for a very long time. I HOPE THIS IS CLEAR THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO ARGENTINA NON SKILLED AND SKILLED THAN FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS .......

I see them every day in my work and have read many articles on this topic .

Please show me the statistics Gouchobob that since 2007 that this is not the case?

Stats are hard to come by but go look in the CIA factbook, net immigration/migration in Argentina is estimated at zero in 2008 and 2009. If there are still people coming from other countries in the region it means there is still almost without a doubt an continued outflow, not a return to Argentina, of the educated and skilled. Remember Spain or the Miami aren't the only places to go.

Spain still shows a net inflow during the same period even given the poor state of the economy there.

 

[citygirl]

Eh weird - I posted a response and now it's gone.

Anyway, my point was that I know a bunch of people that returned to Argentina after 2007. None returned by choice but because they worked for firms that accepted TARP money (which made it very difficult to retain foreign workers) or they finished their studies and couldn't find a company that would hire them (again, there has been a decrease in the number of H-1 visas issued).

None of them are raving about their salaries or working conditions here (the ones that have found jobs). They're here because they have to be, not because they wanted to find jobs here or start up companies.

I've posted this link before but look at the world bank - it pretty clearly illustrates the problems of having a company here in Arg - http://www.doingbusiness.org/exploreeconomies/?economyid=9

Yes people are returning but of my limited sample - it wasn't because they thought it was a great place to wait it out or start their own thing here. It was just they didn't have another option.

ETA - I don't think anyone is saying the US or any other country is perfect so I'm not sure why some people are focused on that. Every country has its challenges. Argentina happens to have a lot of them however.

 

[perry]

Stats are hard to come by but go look in the CIA factbook, net immigration/migration in Argentina is estimated at zero in 2008 and 2009. If there are still people coming from other countries in the region it means there is still almost without a doubt an continued outflow, not a return to Argentina, of the educated and skilled. Remember Spain or the Miami aren't the only places to go.

Spain still shows a net inflow during the same period even given the poor state of the economy there.

The CIA is now a reliable source of info? Over the years I have noticed that your posts have never been in your own words mostly propaganda pieces from Washington Post and New York Times . Many argentinians will tell you that during the late 1990s those same papers were constantly upbeat about Argentina and Menem even though the country was going down the drain and all its infrastructure was sold for pennies in the dollar. The IMF said the year of the crash that the economy of Argentina was projected to have good growth . Now those same people we are led to believe are the gospel truth?


I do not understand how your points from afar and non residing in Argentina have more validity than those who live here full time work here pay taxes here and socialise here . They certainly do not need these Journals that you quote lavishly from to justify their existence.

I also find it hard to understand that an a non living ba expat that for personal reasons has moved to Chile or the USA can from a pulpit from afar be commenting so voraciously on Argentina and 99 percent in a very negative light.

I left Australia and never have I once posted on forums there in regards to my beliefs as it is irrevelant now since I have moved on and decided to live in the moment and not let bitterness be my signature.

Citygirl I am certainly not against USA and its great people but I am fully aware of its government policies that have affected people world wide and does so to this day . Argentina has absolutely no influence in the world and is not a military power....


I suggest that all who brought the Buenos Aires Herald turn to page 2 14/7/2010 and read about the incredible increase in unemployment in the United States . This is a fact not a hearsay and confirms exactly the points made by me and other enlightened readers.

 

[citygirl]

Pericles - but what does unemployment in the US (or Europe) have to do with conditions in Argentina?

Bad there doesn't equal great here - I think that's what some of us are pointing out.

 

[perry]

Pericles - but what does unemployment in the US (or Europe) have to do with conditions in Argentina?

Bad there doesn't equal great here - I think that's what some of us are pointing out.

This thread is called re immigration Citygirl and the truths behind this issue . Unemployment in the USA and Europe has a lot to do with this topic and this is the reason for the huge increase in argentinians returning in the last two years from Miami, Barcelona and other expat destinations for locals.

I have five close friends who all have returned from Australia. USA, and Europe to Buenos Aires and they are happier here and in full employment even though they are in their 40s up to the 60s.

 

[citygirl]

Ah - I understand a bit more. I certainly would agree that some people are being forced to return to Argentina due to economic reasons. And congrats to your friends on making such a successful re-integration. I can't say that the people I know who have returned feel the same and certainly they all took HUGE pay cuts.

I think we agree on some things, just not the conclusions drawn. net/net - I don't see or think there will be a huge influx of professionals coming to work here or set up companies with the economy being the way it is in Argentina and the difficulties business face here. Some will return certainly (some by choice, some by necessity). But for those that are lucky enough to be working in Europe/US/etc - I don't know of any that are looking to come back here right away. It's just not financially logical.