Been down here 3 months and got beat-up & mugged

[sesamosinsal]

When you have a lot of poor people you are also going to have a lot of crime. The situation seems to be getting worse which would indicate more people are falling into poverty contrary to government INDEC statistics. If people have jobs and can make enough to live on decently then they usually aren't out committing crimes. Sure law enforcement at times seems virtually non-existent but poverty is the root cause of the crime. With 25% inflation you have to believe the number of people slipping into poverty is increasing so I would expect crime to increase as well. You are basically on your own like in the wild west days except there is no sheriff.

http://en.mercopress.com/2010/04/06...two-million-argentines-living-in-shanty-towns

I would say that crime here isn't led by poverty. One of the biggest reasons that there is so much inflation in this country is, in part, due to too many pesos chasing too few products.

The views on what causes high crime are vast, but in Argentina (and many Latin American countries) I'd argue that it has more to do with the stark inequalities (cross Leandro N. Alem going east or west, for example) and the political rhetoric that tends to blame those who have capital as generally evil (sometimes true). Good article on this from the World Bank.

 

[AngelinBA]

Actually, it´s not all doom and gloom and writing off certain suburbs. La Boca is a dangerous place. There are a lot of beautiful buildings that have been abandoned then taken over by less than upstanding individuals. Any street, even the main street is like that. At the end of the riachuelo walk is a villa de emergencia.
The good side is this: I go to La Boca a lot (my Argentine husband was born there and one of the best pizza places we know is there) and we have noticed over the last 4 years or so that there is a lot more commerce, the ´tourist trap´feria is growing more than the 2 streets it used to be and therefore a lot of the dodgy houses are being emptied out and cleaned up for business. Even along the main avenue into where el caminito is there are a lot more businesses and things aren´t quite as abandoned feeling as it used to be.
There is positive change going on in La Boca. That said, it is a place to go to and come back from in taxi or in a bus like the 152 that's end terminal is right by the Caminito site. There may not be more crime in that area than in other suburbs, but it is often very violent. People have mentioned the rise in poverty, they have not talked about the resentment that often goes with that. The locals see tourists and imagine them as big, rich, fat cats mincing about their home neighbourhood and there seems to be a bit of malice in their muggings in that area. Go to La Boca, enjoy it, DON'T WALK THERE.

 

[Napoleon]

Note to self-

"A ghetto with paint on it is still a ghetto."

Remember the note.

 

[AkBill]

I've been robbed by a middle age looking guy, and by a gang of kids like 14 years old. It was much scarier with the kids.. They just had this dead look in their eyes like, my entire life is going to be hell anyway, it makes no difference if we kill you

I walk around at all times of night but gangs of 'kids' like 12-15 years old in the street at night still scare me a little

 

[RobinsonGO]

When you have a lot of poor people you are also going to have a lot of crime. The situation seems to be getting worse which would indicate more people are falling into poverty contrary to government INDEC statistics. If people have jobs and can make enough to live on decently then they usually aren't out committing crimes. Sure law enforcement at times seems virtually non-existent but poverty is the root cause of the crime. With 25% inflation you have to believe the number of people slipping into poverty is increasing so I would expect crime to increase as well. You are basically on your own like in the wild west days except there is no sheriff.

Bob Dylan agrees with Mr. Goucho-

Now a very great man once said
That some people rob you with a fountain pen.
It didn't take too long to find out
Just what he was talkin' about.
A lot of people don't have much food on their table,
But they got a lot of forks 'n' knives,
And they gotta cut somethin'.


So sorry to hear sugarcubes...

 

[gouchobob]

I would say that crime here isn't led by poverty. One of the biggest reasons that there is so much inflation in this country is, in part, due to too many pesos chasing too few products.

The views on what causes high crime are vast, but in Argentina (and many Latin American countries) I'd argue that it has more to do with the stark inequalities (cross Leandro N. Alem going east or west, for example) and the political rhetoric that tends to blame those who have capital as generally evil (sometimes true). Good article on this from the World Bank.

Not sure I understand your points, isn't inequalities basically the same as saying some people are poor some are rich(i.e. the same thing I am saying)? The article from the World Bank isn't an article, it's a report 40 pages long, too long for my limited attention span, perhaps you could summarize its findings. As to inflation it is too many pesos chasing too few goods. What's happening in Argentina is that the government is creating pesos much faster than the rate of growth in the economy. The economy is growing at what 8% or so and the government is growing the money supply at around 28%, inflation is bound to occur in this situation.
The government objective is to create faster growth so they can get re-elected, most economists would tell you this is very irresponsible and is not sustainable. The resulting high inflation will certainly make it tough on people on the bottom and push more of them into poverty, which is going to result in a growing crime problem.

 

[marksoc]

Crime is a result of inequality, not absolute poverty. That is the reason why you have no-go areas in many US cities, but Sweden should be more or less safe; Laos is poor and safe, Brazil is not. The incredibly growth that Argentina had from 2003 onwards is making a lot of people very rich, so maybe you could explain a rise in crime. But, it seems that the Gini Index decreased, meaning that there is less difference between the income of the poor and the rich, and it is known that the rate of violent serious crimes is lower (this data is very difficult to change for political reasons, a murder is a murder and always appear in the statistics).

Still, do not go to that hole of a (small) neighborhood, for some reason La Boca has been dangerous for a long time.

 

[Hache]

I plan on heading down to BA in late October by myself and to stay for a few weeks. Aside from La Boca, what other barrios should I avoid in the daytime? Also, is pepper spray legal? I keep a small spray bottle in my car for trips to Los Angeles. Perhaps a squirt or two would keep robbers at bay.

I'm a local and have been robbed seven times in my life, the first time at age eleven and with a knife on my throat. The last at age 15 learning what it feels like to have a .38 barrel pressed against my forehead.

I won't say I developed a "sixth sense", but since that last time at age 15 I began observing people and places and never got robbed again (knocking on wood), and I must have been lucky as it sure takes more than observing to stay safe.

That being said, here's my two cents: Always stay alert when leaving train terminal stations. Those are Retiro, Constitución, Once and Chacarita. It's not a daytime or nighttime thing. Stay alert 24/7. Of course such strategic locations aren't all you should be concerned about, but I don't want to make you paranoid. A terminal offers the robber a massive transit of people together with other advantages the overall chaotic activity brings. They are good spotting places. They can watch while passing unnoticed. But they could notice you, and it's when you walk away from the crowd when you'll be more vulnerable and should radar every movement around you.

My point is most people can't avoid certain places, and the aggressors know it. You can't avoid the places the robbers know you can't avoid. That's why they're there. Always remember that and stay alert. The terminals are an example I believe worth considering. You made avoid the terminals if you drive a car, but sooner or later you will park you car and step out of it. Vulnerability alert and radar on.

In a general pedestrian context, as long as you stay in crowded areas a violent engagement will be more unlikely. When you leave a crowded area like an avenue in the daytime, take a look back mid-block and keep an eye behind you from time to time. If after some time you have solid reasons to believe you are being followed, don't wait until it becomes obvious. Do whatever you can to avoid being engaged. You want to lose the guy. Try to keep a good distance. The farther the guy is from you, the more options you have. You could turn on a corner and run far enough and lose him for good. You could jump on a passing cab or bus. My advice is very limited. Many different situations could arise. If somewhere a guy spotted you as a target and cell phoned his partners to set an ambush, at least try to take comfort in the fact that there's nothing you could have done to prevent it. And from my part, forget the silly pepper spray. As far as I'm concerned, pepper spray's legal here. But BE WARNED: You wanna carry one, fine, but you're totally wrong if you think the spray would keep the robbers (could you really tell they are nothing more than robbers?) "at bay". If you don't know your aggressor , you don't know what to expect from them either, and you may end up making someone who just wanted to rob you mad enough to want to do something worse. If the guy wanted to do something worse already, you might as well use a water pistol. Keep in mind the difference between you and you aggressor is they crossed a line you didn't or you wouldn't be asking for places to avoid as just like them you wouldn't give a s*it about the world and what could happen to you. If you are the reasonable, civilized guy you seem to be, violence is your last resource. So make sure it is so before using it against people who use violence because it's all they know. You'd be trying to hurt someone you wouldn't if given the choice, but they chose you as a target. That's hunting my friend, and don't expect a hunter to show mercy. Again, be warned, and try not to make a bad situation a worse one.

My point is that from my own experience, showing no resistance was my best choice when all alternatives ran out, and I'm lucky to say the situation didn't call for more. Only something really terrible could justify going out in a blaze of glory. Things I don't want to think about. That's as far as I can go.

One more thing: don't think racial. Don't sort people out by their skin color. I did it and believe me I was proven wrong the hard way. The poor brown guy everyone fears may be as docile as Lassie. My third time three white guys beat the sh*t out of me. One was blonde and wore a Lacoste shirt. The last time, the guy with the .38 was a redhead. It was racial prejudice that made me feel safe when I should have stayed alert and I got what I deserved. Statistics aren't the key to identify a potential aggressor, what they are doing is.

Please take my words as subjective advice from my self-experience, probably wrong in more than one point and for sure incomplete. If we have a safety and/or self-defense expert in this board, I'd like to hear what they have to say.

 

[CedarPawn]

Perhaps a squirt or two would keep robbers at bay.

OR have the opposite effect on some paco using - glue sniffing thug and enrage them enough to kill you...

I am just saying...

Is anyone else going to say what should be obvious here? Were it only legal here, responsibly carried firearms could nip this problem in the bud.

 

[LAtoBA]

Is anyone else going to say what should be obvious here? Were it only legal here, responsibly carried firearms could nip this problem in the bud.

The problem is not everyone is responsible. Especially when they're scared or in a situation that they perceive to be threatening. There's a fine line between self-defense and taking justice into your own hands, hence why I'm against this.

Besides at the end of the day allowing citizens to walk around with guns in the name of self-defense isn't a solution to the real problem, it's just a band-aid. How does knowing that everyone you approach on the street is armed make anyone feel safer? I would think it has the opposite effect.