Chavez wins elections, we are screwed!

[Desde2008]

Perhaps the Argentine opposition can learn from Capriles and get their f***ing act together one day.
Or would that be too much to ask?

CFK was pretty quiet this week, reports are that she was taking notes from Chavez on how to run her election for her third term as Queen of Argentina.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

Perhaps the Argentine opposition can learn from Capriles and get their f***ing act together one day.
Or would that be too much to ask?

Not that I know sod all about Venezuela but seems that Capriles:

1. has been succesfull in maintinaing and positioning himself in the centre ground despite Chavez efforts to polarise
2. increased the opposition votes despite being faced with the oil backed promises to build lots more working class housing
3, has decided not to whinge about electoral irregularities
4. stands a chance of positioning himself as the credible leader when Chavez dies

Far from the US (and poodle UK politicians) accepting Chavez with equanimity I recall a bodged Bush (and likely enough Blair) backed attempt to unseat him some years ago. No doubt an attempt to grab oil and influence. And this only had the effect of reinforcing the siege mentality and foreign conspiracy platform for Chavez's nationalistic populism which clearly still endures and is a vote winner and also provides a role model for Cristina?

Macri preferably should learn some lessons from Capriles but will he?

Cristina is quoted as having told Chavez that his victory is a victory for all of South America. She is still hoping for some cut price oil?

 

[Conrado]

The thing with Macri is that he would polarize his own voters should he become Argentina's Capriles because of his conservative views. There are many progressives fiercely opposed to CFK, who would never vote for him because of stuff like vetoing the abortion protocol. That's one problem of the opposition uniting under one single candidate, the agendas are different: some think the substance of what's done is wrong, others think is badly and poorly implemented...

 

[trennod]

I haven't been following Venezuela or the election at all and fully expected Chavez to win, but I did find the concession speech and the mannerisms of Capriles to be somewhat odd for someone who just lost an election. Perhaps he was just happy to have gotten so far, but there was a lot of smiling for someone who is supposedly ideologically opposed... I saw more disappointment from some of the voters.

I actually thought he handled himself brilliantly. Knew there would be alot of disappointed people amongst his supporters and wanted to show a strong front and encourage his supporters to keep their chins up and keep fighting so to speak.

 

[Rich One]

Unfortunately Capriles doesn't have the charisma or Oratorial abilities of Chavez or CFK.

 

[Matt84]

Capriles doesn't necessarily need to be working for Chavez in a Conspiracy, but he's certainly doing him an immense favor.

As long as the new structures are in place Chavez or any other Populist who learned to hack democracy, can do the whole elections circus without running any real political risk.

Thanks to Capriles conciliatory smiles we are reminded we can't call Chavez a dictator in spite of gut and evidence, the latter I'd ask someone else to provide....

 

[Matt84]

Why precisely are we screwed (or more so) as stated on the topic,

Is it a coincidence that today is a holiday, furthermore the 'day of the race' or whatever the call Columbus day now...? Probably yes, it is but humans are wired to recognize patterns where there might be none

 

[jp]

Thanks to Capriles conciliatory smiles we are reminded we can't call Chavez a dictator in spite of gut and evidence

What evidence is there to suggest that Chavez is a dictator? Do you think the election was rigged, or that that people were forced to vote? The elections have consistently been reported to be both free and fair by independent monitors...

Seriously, whilst I'm not a fan of the guy he's done a lot of positive things during his time in office (in addition to stripping out the checks and balances that define a democracy).

But I find it a little disingenuous hearing the criticisms from a number of parties, particularly given their vested interests. Difficult to take criticism from the US seriously given their fairly open involvement in a coup. Difficult to take much of the domestic media seriously for similar reasons.

And difficult to really take a lot of the external and more impartial press seriously. If press is supposed to hold government to account, who holds the press to account when they try and spearhead a coup out of their own self interest? A country run to serve the interests of an elite isn't much of a democracy either. Yet there was little media furore surrounding the coup and the injustice of it.

Some people seem to struggle to accept that anyone would vote for chavez. And yet people do. A majority of voters in fact. Which should be grounds to questions how objective the external presentation of Venezuela is.

Article to that effect here: http://gu.com/p/3bxxh/em

 

[Matt84]

@JP Had you left my quote intact, other users would see that I finish that sentence asking for evidence that Chavez MIGHT be a dictator (thus clarifying that I only have my gut feelings, and history of living in Third World countries and seeing how easily is the population controlled).

I'd like to point my finger of innocent comparison again to South Africa where the same party has won elections ever since 'Democracy' began, slowly ruining the country, achieving number 1 murder rates per (ex-)capita in the World, and only getting more popular in the process. Defied only by an anemic party that only helps 'legitimize' them.
No one denies South Africa is Democratic
Now is this, in face of the facts, a good thing? Can I even ask this question?

Good measured in human life (quality as well as quantity, we're not Lemmings)

So now Venezuela is Democratic and outside the Imperialist grasp of the United States. The old elite is all but destroyed, and has been replaced by a new one (nomenklatura is the term for Socialist countries)

Is the average Venezuelan Joe better off?

 

[notebook.fix]

We don't have an opposition in Argentina. They are all part of the same mafia, only that they do 'Political Novelas' to distract the public into believing there's an opposition.

I'm not a socialist but if I had to vote I'd go for Lilita Carrio or Gorge Lanata. Unfortunately these two are the only sane figures left with a decent public profile in my view.

Perhaps the Argentine opposition can learn from Capriles and get their f***ing act together one day.
Or would that be too much to ask?