Christina Kirchner

[antipodean]

Where on the continent is life getting better? There were modest improvements for a brief period in the last decade, but overall Latin America remains the most economically unequal region on Earth. Even before the pandemic, it was projected for zero or negative growth even with right-wing governments in charge of the largest countries (except for ARG, obviously). After the pandemic, according to ECLAC, it's reaching record poverty, that is there were 22M more people living in poverty than the previous year.

To name a few where life has improved drastically since the mid 20th century and times of "operation condor" when the literacy rate was barely 60% in most countries:

• Paraguay where the middle class has been growing since the start of this century to reach almost 40% of the population.
• Peru where the middle class accounts for approximately 45% of the population, up from just 17% in 2004.

Inequality is another subject that cannot be solved by making everyone as poor as the poorest, especially in a region lacking historical infrastructure (unlike Argentina). Nor can a conclusion of if life is better than the mid 20th century be reached by using short-sighted comparisons of expansions or contractions in poverty rates between 2020 to 2021.

 

[Redpossum]

CFK truthers sound like Trumpers with all their fake news conspiracy theories.

The problem with your replies, Dougie, is that you are evading the issues, and attacking the messengers. And I really don't think that dragging Trump into this is going to do anything to improve the conversation. How about we stick to Argentina, or at least Latin America.

The fact remains that when it comes to all the accusations against Cristina, that's all you have - unsubstantiated accusations. And the "notebooks" ? What a joke. They are photocopies of handwritten notes by an anonymous author. This makes them hearsay, and nothing more, certainly not evidence admissible in any halfway-honest court of law. Where's the beef?

 

[Alpinista]

The problem with your replies, Dougie, is that you are evading the issues, and attacking the messengers. And I really don't think that dragging Trump into this is going to do anything to improve the conversation. How about we stick to Argentina, or at least Latin America.

The fact remains that when it comes to all the accusations against Cristina, that's all you have - unsubstantiated accusations. And the "notebooks" ? What a joke. They are photocopies of handwritten notes by an anonymous author. This makes them hearsay, and nothing more, certainly not evidence admissible in any halfway-honest court of law. Where's the beef?

What about Boudou (that's the guy with the printing press) for example? He was convicted 30+ times through all the instances. Still, he serves as a poster boy for the "presos políticos" campaign.

 

[Redpossum]

What about Boudou (that's the guy with the printing press) for example? He was convicted 30+ times through all the instances. Still, he serves as a poster boy for the "presos políticos" campaign.

OK, sure let's go there. If you read carefully, you will see that all the proceedings against Booboo were pushed forward by one judge, Ariel Lijo, another of Macri's henchmen. And as far as his convictions, which were two, not 30, (a slight exaggeration there, Alpy), see my links to the D'Alessio and Stornelli cases, and this summary from the English language Wikipedia page -

Boudou claims that he is a victim of political persecution.[32] He said that the "alleged bribe has no basis or link to the evidence because it didn’t exist."[34] This seems to be supported by the latest developments in the Marcelo D'Alessio case being investigated by the Federal Judge of Dolores Alejo Ramos Padilla. D'Alessio was allegedly part of an espionage gang with members of the AFI (Federal Intelligence Agency), the Judicial Branch and Journalists that forged false penal cases against members and allies of the former Argentinian government as part of a Lawfare campaign. The attorneys of Núñez Carmona, who was accused along with Boudou, asked Judge Ramos Padilla to investigate if the testimony of Vandenbroele was indeed prepared by members of the AFI and the Ministry of Security.[35]

 

[antipodean]

Where's the beef?

The first beef is the exponential growth in personal wealth of her, her deceased husband, her children and various funcionarios during their lives in public office that simply doesn’t make sense of a daughter of a bus driver or someone who only practiced law for a few short years fresh out of school. Neither here nor anywhere else. How is it that Máximo has a higher net worth than Larreta despite the fact he has never worked a day in his life in the private sector or even completed university?

Or perhaps you have done an audit of the K family and their henchmen’s wealth and it’s origins to be able to assure us that it is all 100% legit and give us an explanation that actually makes some sense?

And sorry to burst the bubble but despite all the moaning about them, public salaries and pensions in Argentina just ain’t that high compared to most other countries even in this region.

 

[Brian_is_here]

Last week former French president Nicolas Sarkozy was convicted for breaching the legal spending limit for his re-election campaign by 10%. He has one more appeal, and if it fails he'll most likely escape jail but have to wear an electronic ankle tag for a year or two.

The same week, an investigation by 'Ámbito Financiero' revealed the source of 25 million dollars of the 35 million Mauricio Macri's brother, Gianfranco, laundered using his brother's 2017 'blanqueo' law: an undeclared trust fund in the tax haven of Liechtenstein. In order to get round the anti-corruption provisions of the Macri government's own law (preventing parents or offspring of a public official from using the 'blanqueo' law), the Macri family put little Gianfranco down as an executor, and laundered the money through him.

Turn on the TV and on 'La Nacion+', journalist Alfredo Leuco is talking - as he has been for the last decade - about "blister packs" of $100 bills that some of his 'sources' have told him exist and can be traced to Christina Kirchner. His sombre-faced colleagues nod in resigned acceptance. No mention of course of the Ámbito Financiero revelations: that's just not news.

What strikes me from my 16 years in this country is Argentine media's extraordinary attachment to corruption: they simply can't live without it. But it's not corruption in the normal sense of the word: here it means "things that I like to think are done by people I don't like". Apply that definition to what you see in the 'news', and it all begins to make sense ...

I've been here for 3 years and just casual acceptance of corruption at all levels is just... Normal.

It's _hard_ to not commit a tax crime. Pay in cash and you're almost certainly going to be buying something that isn't reported to the government correctly.

I want to say like 40% of the Argentine labor economy is under-the-table. Just boggles my mind at the inefficiency in the government books.

The hearts and minds of the Argentine people don't want the rule of law to prevail.

 

[Dougie]

The problem with your replies, Dougie, is that you are evading the issues, and attacking the messengers. And I really don't think that dragging Trump into this is going to do anything to improve the conversation. How about we stick to Argentina, or at least Latin America.

The fact remains that when it comes to all the accusations against Cristina, that's all you have - unsubstantiated accusations. And the "notebooks" ? What a joke. They are photocopies of handwritten notes by an anonymous author. This makes them hearsay, and nothing more, certainly not evidence admissible in any halfway-honest court of law. Where's the beef?

I'm not attacking you, and I enjoy your posts.

I'm just ridiculing how people who defend Cristina believe that there is some massive conspiracy theory to bring down CFK that even random youtube channels are involved in.

I find similarities in how Trumpers only believe Fox News and think the deep state and the Clintons are out to get them. It's the same for CFK truthers. They only believe Pagina 12 and believe this is all a set up by the Argentine deep state and the Marcis. Cult of personality.

If Macri is corrupt throw him in jail too.

 

[Sojourner]

And the "notebooks" ? What a joke. They are photocopies of handwritten notes by an anonymous author.

The anonymous author: "Oscar Bernardo Centeno, identified with National Identity Document Nº 11,564,486, born on March 12, 1955 in the city of San Salvador de Jujuy, Province of Jujuy, of Argentine nationality, divorced, by occupation a driver for the Municipality of Berazategui, the son of Rubén [Centeno] and Adriana Villarrubia, most recently domiciled at Nicolás Repetto 3427, Olivos, Province of Buenos Aires, represented by attorney Gustavo Kollmann, with domicile designated at Avenida Comodoro Py 2002, 5th floor, in this city." Translation from the Spanish. The notebooks make a fascinating if difficult read.

 

[on the brink]

The anonymous author: "Oscar Bernardo Centeno, identified with National Identity Document Nº 11,564,486, born on March 12, 1955 in the city of San Salvador de Jujuy, Province of Jujuy, of Argentine nationality, divorced, by occupation a driver for the Municipality of Berazategui, the son of Rubén [Centeno] and Adriana Villarrubia, most recently domiciled at Nicolás Repetto 3427, Olivos, Province of Buenos Aires, represented by attorney Gustavo Kollmann, with domicile designated at Avenida Comodoro Py 2002, 5th floor, in this city." Translation from the Spanish. The notebooks make a fascinating if difficult read.

The blood type is not listed. Clearly, that shows the author is anonymous.

 

[Alby]

People are taking potshots here and there, on examples here and there. It could go on endlessly.

A few weeks ago Redpossum in another threat said his/her studies indicated there is a conspiracy from the outside to sabotage Argentina (and all of Latin America). S/he said this forum wasn't the place to have the discussion, but why ever not? The subject is fascinating. I'd be very interested to hear the theory. Redpossum is an English teacher, and should therefore be able to put it succinctly.