Covid Vaccination Argentina

[Somewhereinba]

Anecdotally and by coincidence this morning I was talking to friends here. Their family has all be vaccinated, parents one with Sputnik (1 dose), other with Sinopharm (2 doses). Other person with Pfizer (2 doses). All received last dose at least 6 weeks ago. They all had private lab antibody tests done and were surprised that the person with Sinopharm had less than half the antibodies of either person with Sputnik or Pfizer, who both were found to have “high” levels of antibodies. That would suggest that out of these people the one with the Sinopharm would have the highest risk of getting infected, infecting others or getting seriously ill from the virus.

It’s still early days for any vaccine or vaccine program so best to be open minded about how data will evolve with time. For example, now some studies are even suggesting it’s actually beneficial to mix and match vaccines instead of getting two doses of the same in order to get higher levels of immunity. Other studies give a magic number of 75% of a population fully vaccinated to be able to overcome the pandemic and not need to worry too much about subsequent hospitalizations and deaths in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated population.

Also countries like Israel that are down to double digit daily cases or a 7 day average deaths of 1 are interesting to watch at this moment as since May Israelis have been traveling quite freely. Presumably this means they are coming into contact with various strains in Europe and elsewhere then returning home to a country where 40% of the population are still unvaccinated.

The issues with Sinopharm have been well studied - Dubai, Yemen etc all used majority Sinopharm and also found the same - very low to no levels of antibodies.. They are talking about having a 'booster' with a Pfizer jab as a solution.

 

[lunar]

... all used majority Sinopharm and also found the same - very low to no levels of antibodies...

Antibody Testing Not Recommended to Assess Immunity After Vaccination

FDA reminds the public and health care providers that SARS-CoV-2 antibody test results should not be used to evaluate a person’s level of immunity from COVID-19

www.fda.gov

Can antibody tests tell you if a COVID-19 vaccine worked?

If you’ve gotten a COVID-19 antibody test after getting vaccinated, you may be wondering if your test results prove that the vaccine was effective. Here’s what to know about antibody testing – and what positive and negative results mean after you’ve received a coronavirus vaccine.

www.mdanderson.org

 

[Somewhereinba]

Antibody Testing Not Recommended to Assess Immunity After Vaccination

FDA reminds the public and health care providers that SARS-CoV-2 antibody test results should not be used to evaluate a person’s level of immunity from COVID-19

www.fda.gov

Can antibody tests tell you if a COVID-19 vaccine worked?

If you’ve gotten a COVID-19 antibody test after getting vaccinated, you may be wondering if your test results prove that the vaccine was effective. Here’s what to know about antibody testing – and what positive and negative results mean after you’ve received a coronavirus vaccine.

www.mdanderson.org

Has the Government posted prices they are paying for the variety of vaccines? From what I read Sinopharm is actually not cheap so why would Argentina reject Pfizer when its clearly a better vaccine?

 

[lunar]

Has the Government posted prices they are paying for the variety of vaccines? From what I read Sinopharm is actually not cheap so why would Argentina reject Pfizer when its clearly a better vaccine?

Prices for poor countries may be very different from listing prices.

Controversy over price of Chinese Sinopharm vaccine in Sri Lanka | Indiablooms - First Portal on Digital News Management

A controversy erupted in Sri Lanka over the alleged differential pricing of Sinopharm Covid-19 vaccines that the Sri Lankan government has been procuring from China, with authorities facing the allegation of signing the deal at a relatively higher price.

www.indiablooms.com

Sri Lanka has placed an order of 20 million Sinopharm vaccines at $15 per dose. However, some reports alleged that Bangladesh procured the same vaccine at $10 per dose.

Besides, Argentina has a long history of not paying its debts, so it was probably more about the ability to collect rather than price itself.

 

[FrankPintor]

Has the Government posted prices they are paying for the variety of vaccines? From what I read Sinopharm is actually not cheap so why would Argentina reject Pfizer when its clearly a better vaccine?

I don’t know if they actually published the prices but some have been mentioned in interviews in BA Times. I lifted this from the Deutsche Welle, who in turn apparently lifted it from UNICEF:


There could be very good reasons for not prioritising the BioNTech / Pfizer vaccine, like too expensive, too onerous contractual conditions, too few -80 degree fridges, and enough other well performing vaccines.

 

[Somewhereinba]

Besides, Argentina has a long history of not paying its debts, so it was probably more about the ability to collect rather than price itself.

This is my theory... You know the Chinese and Russians have a 'pay me later *wink wink*' mentality. Would love to see the flow of money. AKA I'll take some of your resources and remember this as an IOU... "Stop annoying our Chinese fishing boats in the south that are destroying your oceans". Private companies like Pfizer and Moderna even though clearly a better vaccine most likely were banging their heads against the wall trying to deal with the Argentine government... "I'll pay you in pesos in 5 years yanky - no problema"

 

[FrankPintor]

China prefers cash on delivery in crisp green ones. My go-to reference on this is how both Huawei and ZTE exited the Venezuelan telecoms market (they were the main suppliers of telecoms equipment) after 2013. Offices with hundreds of engineers reduced to 10 or 20. No winky winky there.

Russia may have a longer term strategic vision, and more long range power to project.

 

[Somewhereinba]

China prefers cash on delivery in crisp green ones. My go-to reference on this is how both Huawei and ZTE exited the Venezuelan telecoms market (they were the main suppliers of telecoms equipment) after 2013. Offices with hundreds of engineers reduced to 10 or 20. No winky winky there.

Russia may have a longer term strategic vision, and more long range power to project.

We are talking high Government level - I have seen directly how the Chinese do business in Africa and in my industry. Contracts are awarded in very dirty ways and lots of people have their hand out all along the supply chain (mass corruption on both sides of the table). I also know Chinese government backed companies that were giving 5 year payment terms to get contracts awarded to them - how the hell could a private company compete with that? The reality is that like attracts like and Argentina operates very much the same as both China and Russia (mass corruption and power/influence games). Pfizer and Moderna operate on a different playing field to Government backed institutions. The day this government would even think of doing business with a dirty yankee company like Pfizer and announcing it on TV would be the end of them lol.. America = Evil capitalist pigs according to this administration.

 

[FrankPintor]

Pfizer and Moderna operate on a different playing field to Government backed institutions. The day this government would even think of doing business with a dirty yankee company like Pfizer and announcing it on TV would be the end of them lol.. America = Evil capitalist pigs according to this administration.

I’m not sure that Pfizer operates on a different playing field (Moderna is sort of a startup, so I’ll give you that).

But Argentina did think about doing business with Pfizer, when they allowed Pfizer to perform phase 2 and 3 trials here (https://www.argentina.gob.ar/anmat/...s-farmacologicas/Estudios-autorizados-COVID19). My feeling is that Pfizer treated Argentina shabbily, they got the very valuable data they needed and then gave Argentina the two-fingered salute. Whatever.

Not ignoring the rest of your post but it could be continued in another thread.

 

[jblaze5779]

I’m not sure that Pfizer operates on a different playing field (Moderna is sort of a startup, so I’ll give you that).

But Argentina did think about doing business with Pfizer, when they allowed Pfizer to perform phase 2 and 3 trials here (https://www.argentina.gob.ar/anmat/...s-farmacologicas/Estudios-autorizados-COVID19). My feeling is that Pfizer treated Argentina shabbily, they got the very valuable data they needed and then gave Argentina the two-fingered salute. Whatever.

Not ignoring the rest of your post but it could be continued in another thread.

Why would Pfizer not want to sell vacines here? Probably because they knew they would never be paid.