Cristina's culpability in the financial crisis and if capital controls will work under the peronists

[perry]

Indeed, apart from the lawyer Perry has become the most bias poster here. He hates Macri and offers little constructive comment because of that hatred. Posts high on content but low on nuance.

Most are simply saying Argentina's problems are systemic and have been decades in the building (way before Kirchner even) so the country will never change without embracing massive structural upheaval. Few are arguing Macri has been a success or has not participated in that systemic failure, in fact he has caused a lot of problems. Despite the clarity of what most members are saying, Perry does a five paragraph equivalent of "me right, you wrong, Macri".

I voted for Macri because I wanted a positive change and in the end it was a disaster for Argentina . I am stating my reality and my opinion and I have a democratic right to do this . Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and you also have a right to disagree .

 

[perry]

You might have had a point if you did not fail at reading comprehension.

I did not say any critisicm of Macri is biased. I said only critisizing Macri and not recognizing the institutional mess Argentina is in and has been in for decades is biased. Macri can and should be critisized, but Perry (and seemingly you) can't recognize that Argentina's system as a whole should be critisized. Macri is a failure but the previous government and its ethos also failed, and unless drastic changes are made the next one will too.

Time will prove this. Let's see in four years if Argentina is fulfilling its vast potential. Not enough time, let's see in 10 years time. I would predict the situation in the country will be largely unchanged. That's whether Macri or Fernandez wins the election.

By the way I have been called ridiculuous things on this forum and one of these is that I am a peronist . I was born in a conservative family and respect those beliefs I am not a admirer of left wing governments nor or their radical policies . There are many countries in the world that are capitalist but respect their citizens . What has happened in Argentina in the last years has been a savage capitalism that has decimated the middle class and has been the main catalyst of the current situation we are in . As stated before I voted for Macri hoping for a positive change but like most people we were left with egg on our faces .

I do not believe that the new government will be able to revert this situation as the foreign debt will not be able to be paid . The central bank reserves have been dwindled to nearly nothing and Argentina is in dire straits . All of the money that Macri borrowed was not spent wisely nor was it accounted for in any manner . Maybe you can enlighten us where the money went that he borrowed from the IMF ?

 

[FallenAngel]

Maybe you can enlighten us where the money went that he borrowed from the IMF ?

A large portion of it went to subsidize capital outflows via defending the peso.

 

[retiredbanker]

By the way I have been called ridiculuous things on this forum and one of these is that I am a peronist . I was born in a conservative family and respect those beliefs I am not a admirer of left wing governments nor or their radical policies . There are many countries in the world that are capitalist but respect their citizens . What has happened in Argentina in the last years has been a savage capitalism that has decimated the middle class and has been the main catalyst of the current situation we are in . As stated before I voted for Macri hoping for a positive change but like most people we were left with egg on our faces .

I do not believe that the new government will be able to revert this situation as the foreign debt will not be able to be paid . The central bank reserves have been dwindled to nearly nothing and Argentina is in dire straits . All of the money that Macri borrowed was not spent wisely nor was it accounted for in any manner . Maybe you can enlighten us where the money went that he borrowed from the IMF ?

You need to ask Cristina where all the money Argentina had went. Perhaps start by asking Lazaro Baez? BTW, I see Perry lists himself as a "veteran". Was he in the Salvation Army?

 

[Irelander]

I guess corruption and outright thievery are also OK, as long as they are practiced by govts of "el pueblo."

Corruption and and outright thievery are not OK, whoever commits it. But, to cite just one example, when a whistleblower revealed that Macri's brother took advantage of his brother's 'sinceramento fiscal' to launder 34 million dollars of hot money, I didn't see headline splashes about "Corrupción M" in Clarín. To be fair, La Nación published a little side piece on how an IT technician had been sacked for revealing tax secrets, but no details...

I think it should be clear to everyone who has lived for some time in this country that corruption is endemic across Argentine society. But the media here prefer to reveal corruption as if searching for it with a fine torch in a dark room, without ever just turning the light on and looking around.

Ok, I agree Macri hasn’t done well. But he inherited a mess

Respectfully, I don't think that the 'he inherited a mess"/"pesada herencia" idea bears scrutiny. Macri inherited a country with no foreign debt, with poverty on a downward trajectory. Certainly the country had a range problems, but he didn't inherit a country in default, or with a mountain of debt or a run on the currency and millions pushed into poverty. In fact it was Nestor Kirchner who stabilised the country after the 2001 default. The history of Argentina in the last 40 years has been one of the "pesada herencia" of financial meltdowns, runs on the currency etc. created by the Menems and Macris of this world.

I'm not seeking to promote any particular line, but I think that the lessons from Macri's government are clear for Argentines, and that it's obvious why Alberto Fernandez will stomp home.

 

[perry]

You need to ask Cristina where all the money Argentina had went. Perhaps start by asking Lazaro Baez? BTW, I see Perry lists himself as a "veteran". Was he in the Salvation Army?

Retired banker please inform us what bank you worked with? There is a saying two wrongs do not make a right and the topic was Macri not Lazaro Baez .

 

[perry]

Corruption and and outright thievery are not OK, whoever commits it. But, to cite just one example, when a whistleblower revealed that Macri's brother took advantage of his brother's 'sinceramento fiscal' to launder 34 million dollars of hot money, I didn't see headline splashes about "Corrupción M" in Clarín. To be fair, La Nación published a little side piece on how an IT technician had been sacked for revealing tax secrets, but no details...

I think it should be clear to everyone who has lived for some time in this country that corruption is endemic across Argentine society. But the media here prefer to reveal corruption as if searching for it with a fine torch in a dark room, without ever just turning the light on and looking around.



Respectfully, I don't think that the 'he inherited a mess"/"pesada herencia" idea bears scrutiny. Macri inherited a country with no foreign debt, with poverty on a downward trajectory. Certainly the country had a range problems, but he didn't inherit a country in default, or with a mountain of debt or a run on the currency and millions pushed into poverty. In fact it was Nestor Kirchner who stabilised the country after the 2001 default. The history of Argentina in the last 40 years has been one of the "pesada herencia" of financial meltdowns, runs on the currency etc. created by the Menems and Macris of this world.

I'm not seeking to promote any particular line, but I think that the lessons from Macri's government are clear for Argentines, and that it's obvious why Alberto Fernandez will stomp home.

Thank you for your clear and honest post. When I came to Argentina in 2004 trhe country was full of hope under Nestor Kirchner . Yes there was corruption ( as there is everywhere in the world ) The reality is that he paid back the debt to the imf and Argentina was growing at a incredible rate . I believe that the economy grew nearly 10% per year from 2004 to 2009 . People were happy and the mood in Buenos Aires was one of optimism and hope .

 

[citygirl]

See I don't get this. When you start from zero and have record commodities pricing, growing the economy 10% year over year isn't exactly noteworthy. And there is literally no question that the K's pilfered from the public coffers - both in Santa Cruz and then on a national level. And that their policies of appeasing the public "futbol para todos" and their refusal to put a real cost on things like utilities ultimately left a bill that Argentina will be hard pressed to pay. Which doesn't excuse the fact that Macri has made some disasterous choices and he seriously underestimated the need for systemic reform.

Stinks for us - I have some US investors who were interested in a family property up north but they are (understandably) so terrified of the situation in Argentina now. And before I hear nationalistic squawking - Argentina depends on the international markets - there simply isn't enough domestic demand. It sucks.

 

[retiredbanker]

Retired banker please inform us what bank you worked with? There is a saying two wrongs do not make a right and the topic was Macri not Lazaro Baez .

It appears "veteran" Perry a good dancer: he dances around any question calling out his obvious dislike of Macri and his admiration (or love affair) of Nestor and Christina. Which bank I worked for is irrelevant. You posting your drivel, then deflecting, speaks volumes.

 

[Stantucker]

Corruption and and outright thievery are not OK, whoever commits it. But, to cite just one example, when a whistleblower revealed that Macri's brother took advantage of his brother's 'sinceramento fiscal' to launder 34 million dollars of hot money, I didn't see headline splashes about "Corrupción M" in Clarín. To be fair, La Nación published a little side piece on how an IT technician had been sacked for revealing tax secrets, but no details...

I think it should be clear to everyone who has lived for some time in this country that corruption is endemic across Argentine society. But the media here prefer to reveal corruption as if searching for it with a fine torch in a dark room, without ever just turning the light on and looking around.



Respectfully, I don't think that the 'he inherited a mess"/"pesada herencia" idea bears scrutiny. Macri inherited a country with no foreign debt, with poverty on a downward trajectory. Certainly the country had a range problems, but he didn't inherit a country in default, or with a mountain of debt or a run on the currency and millions pushed into poverty. In fact it was Nestor Kirchner who stabilised the country after the 2001 default. The history of Argentina in the last 40 years has been one of the "pesada herencia" of financial meltdowns, runs on the currency etc. created by the Menems and Macris of this world.

I'm not seeking to promote any particular line, but I think that the lessons from Macri's government are clear for Argentines, and that it's obvious why Alberto Fernandez will stomp home.

Yesterday Paul Krugman, the economics Nobel prize winner, was quote as saying that Macri made many of the same mistakes that were made from 1998-2001. He said that given the trade and fiscal deficits Argentina had when he took office, he should have immediately made sweeping fiscal reforms and hugely devalued the peso, but because he was afraid of the inflation and social unrest such measures would have generated, he chose the path of borrowing money and gradualism. I don't think Krugman would be suggesting such drastic reforms for a country that was basically in good shape. In the article you posted the author says the Ks made a "few" mistakes-- laughable.