Do fears of crime in Argentina reflect reality?

[erindanelle]

it seems to me that crime is still very apparent in those '3 or 4 neighbourhoods that the expats do live in'. Coming from what i've seen on the much hyped media outlets (which is next to nothing as I don't have a tv and only see it from 7-8.30pm whilst at the gym) robbery and assult happens in Recoleta often enough.

I live in provincia, not near a villa, but there are certainly a few on the end of our train line. I have had my bag stolen in my suburb. I was not injured and I would have no idea who did it. I didn't even see anyone else in the place. My own fault, I took my eyes of my bag for a second.
I catch the train everyday to Once. Its not the most pleasant experience, but I don't feel unsafe. I did see just last week someone realising that their bag had been unzipped and robbed, but that same person was carrying their bag on their back and not on their front or where they could see it.

I think there is too much crime in this city even though i'm yet to really be a victim of it but I still prefer to be here than the likes of Guatemala City. However I think one can also be a victim of the media. I saw front headlines in Australian media today about the 1 in 2500 chance that Earth and Venus are going to collide in 3.5billion years... I mean really??

WreReynolds - your stories are horrible. I hope you're all ok.

 

[fedecc]

the truth is that crime is an every present fact of life outside of the four or five neighborhoods where most expats live

Also keep in mind that overall the Capital Federal is much safer than the conurbano. And if a murder happens in Palermo the media reports it intermediately, but if it happens in La Matanza it wont get the same repercussion.

In any case, murders are not the only crime that generates insecurity sensation. Murder rates have remained stable for the last 10 years or so, but petty thefts, muggings, carjacks, traffic accidents hive risen significantly. Another thing that changed is the level of violence in the crimes, and this is most likely related to drug use.

 

[jimdepalermo]

One element that no one has mentioned is that the period of the junta is still within the memory of many residents. This was a period when there was NO crime, other than that perpetrated by the government. My biggest worry about the current Crime focus is that it may lead back toward a totalitarian government. I was heartened a couple of years ago when Las Madres put Blumberg in his place, but that period now seems forgotten.

Of course, policing could be improved here, as could most fundamental government services. But as long as the voting populace assumes all civil servants are corrupt and don't deserve decent wages, they're guaranteed to have corrupt, incompentent civil servants. And police.

I grew up in a small, quiet, middle-class town in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. where my parents' house was burglarized twice. My father's businesses included a 24-hour service station and convenience store in a remote part of a major interstate highway where, one morning, the evening staff were found bound and murdered in a back room.

I spent most of the last 30 years in New York until moving here in 2006, so I knew New York well in the 1970s and 80s when street crime was a serious problem. I accepted this as part of the price you pay to live in a city like New York, and I feel the same about Buenos Aires, although I don't sense the same sort of danger here that I often did in New York.

I live in Palermo, on the Soho side of Santa Fe, near the Botánico, and I go about my life doing whatever I want at whatever hour, without thinking twice about danger. I take the same reasonable precautions I do in any major city, whether New York or Paris. Yes, there are corners of the city that spook me a little and that I think twice about visiting, especially at night, but the same is true in Amsterdam or San Francisco, for that matter. So far in my 3 years here, I've suffered only the loss of my DNI document, apparently pickpocketed in the D train one Saturday afternoon. (And a nightmare to replace!)

As others have commented, there is indeed a phenomenon I call Paranoia Porteña. People seem to crave fear and crisis, whether driven by crime, disease, or the economy. They also tend to believe any situation is worse than the official reports or statistics indicate.

If each serious crime in New York received the same media attention it does here, they would need a 24-hour crime news channel to handle the coverage. When I pointed this out to a porteño friend who has traveled a bit to Europe and the US, he replied that not all crime is reported here because the government covers up the majority of it. Of course, this is a paranoid argument that can't be won.

A final anecdote: an American friend who has lived in Paris and Provence for most of her adult life recently took up residence in Martinez. Her reason for leaving France? She no longer feels safe there. Why Buenos Aires? "I moved here for the same reasons I originally moved to Paris: It's chic and it's cheap!" Not to mention safer than the French capital.

 

[tangobob]

The trend throughout this thread is to talk about those who live in a bubble. But take a look, most victims of crime, are victims of petty crimes (not so petty if it happens to you, but not as bad as being shot or stabbed) that happen in the so called bubbles. Spend your time around Florida or Palermo and you will find all the low lifes just waiting for you to drop your guard. The few times I have had my pockets rummaged in, or my bag openend or been sprayed with filth, have not been on Balvenera or Villa Crespo, but in Palermo and the Rosedahl and Florida.
Tourists are the biggest target for oportunists and that has been the case in every major city I have ever visited.
Of course we should all be vigilant, of course we should put pressure on those at the top to fight crime, and my sympathy goes out to any victims, but please do not live in fear of going out because someone you knew bought a dog off someone whose third cousin has been robbed at knife point.
Vin Diesel I am not but I walk the streets very late at night and feel safer here than I do walking around Wrexham. (look it up).

 

[ReemsterCARP]

I'd say there is a fair deal of "paranoia porteña" (but I think this only applies to Barrio Norte). Although I want everybody to live in peace, it's getting harder and harder for me to sympathize with yet another group of "preoccupied citizens" demonstrating on the streets of Nuñez or Recoleta. Do they even realize how bad the situation is in barrios like Villa Soldati, Mataderos, Constitución and places like Fuerte Apache, El Jaguël or Florencio Varela?

Ofcourse, crime is a serious problem and everybody has a right to a safe environment to live in, but I do find that the media exagerates the crime problems in the better parts of town. In almost all big cities, crime is an issue. But after living for some time in Caracas (was back for a few days in BsAs 2 weeks ago) it's hard to understand the preoccupation w/ crime in BsAs.

I have to admit: a valid point has been made that many people feel very insecure because, compared to the era of military dictatorship, there is a lot of crime in BsAs. But really, people that say in all seriousness "Que vuelvan los militares!" are in my eyes a bigger threat to society than the poor paco-addicted teenager.

 

[fedecc]

If each serious crime in New York received the same media attention it does here, they would need a 24-hour crime news channel to handle the coverage. When I pointed this out to a porteño friend who has traveled a bit to Europe and the US, he replied that not all crime is reported here because the government covers up the majority of it. Of course, this is a paranoid argument that can't be won.

Actually, it is a well know fact that most crimes are not reported. It's not necessarily that the government hides the statistics, is that the people just don't report the crimes to the police and so they are not counted in the reports. Is not the case with murder which is almost 100% reported, but small crimes are nor properly reported.

 

[jp]

This was a period when there was NO crime, other than that perpetrated by the government.

Not at all sure this was the case. Seeing how journalists who failed to please the government got thrown out of planes, the reporting on crime wasn't exactly accurate. Neither were crime statistics.

Never been a victim of crime, although I know plenty of people who have been. Buenos Aires is a big city, and has a massive gap between rich and poor. I don't think the central barrios are particularly unsafe, but you have to keep your wits about you.

I don't think the crime reporting does anyone any favours or represents the true reality of the danger here. Sure sells a lot of papers, and makes for eye catching TV stories though. And helps boost political careers.

 

[BlahBlah]

I was heartened a couple of years ago when Las Madres put Blumberg in his place, but that period now seems forgotten.

Blumberg son got killed after a ransom was paid, but actually he was just a crybaby not? Just like the 200.000 plus who attended a rally to demand more security and they did go there on the free will and not for a soda, hotdog and free transport ?

Was it the same madre who was cheering after 2900 innocent people lost there life on 911?

 

[BlahBlah]

And I just wanted to say that expats can leave once they feel threatend by crime, that is a luxury that most Argentines don't have, and that's why they are in a different position

 

[Joe]

But after living for some time in Caracas (was back for a few days in BsAs 2 weeks ago) it's hard to understand the preoccupation w/ crime in BsAs.

First people compare BA to Rio and say BA is safer in comparison. now Caracas, you guys crack me up!

Caracas now ranks as the world's No. 1 murder capital, according to Foreign Policy magazine.(http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4480)

Let's make a travel poster with a US soldier from Iraq who just escaped a road side bomb. "I'm vacationing in Buenos Aires, it is much safer than driving a Humvee through the streets of Baghdad."

Yes, we know in Buenos Aires it's less likely that someone will pop a cap in your ass than in the City of Compton (or Caracas). But folks, that's now really a ringing endorsement for Buenos Aires...