Do fears of crime in Argentina reflect reality?

[igor]

Nobody remembers the local rally against the rise of crime this past March in Buenos Aires? Where do you guys live?

I've never heard about people having a demonstration to protest against crime in Detroit. Does it mean that Detroit is a safer city than Buenos Aires?

Yes, the crime has increased, as everywhere else, actually. But the protests is rather a positive sign that this situation is not perceived as normal.

If I ... walk around with a full wallet, credit cards, drive around in fancy car, use my blackberry, wear my goldwatch, talk about how succesfull I are in bars and go to mataderos or La Matanza I probally wouldn't last 2 months

That's about explains it.
I bet many people here can easily name a couple of neighborhoods in cities they lived before where they wouldn't last 20 minutes whether they carry anything expensive or not.

 

[BlahBlah]

That's about explains it.
I bet many people here can easily name a couple of neighborhoods in cities they lived before where they wouldn't last 20 minutes whether they carry anything expensive or not.

I can't, but that must mean I am not an experienced traveller

 

[HDM]

As Igor speculated and Blah followed up, I can.

I am sure I could name many cities on the African continent, but will name the two with which I am most familiar: Johannesburg and Lagos. I also suspect many on the South American continent can be named, but I will name only the (other) one I am familiar with: Rio. On the North American continent, there are very many, but I will name only the four I am most familiar with: Washington, DC, Los Angeles, CA, Chicago, IL, and Mexico City. On the European continent, I can think of fewer than other places, but a couple I'm familiar with come to mind: Naples and Paris.

We could go on with this, but isn't Igor's point more that crime is endemic to various areas in almost every city in the world; Buenos Aires is not exclusive. His further point -- sorry for putting words through his keyboard -- seems to be that we can and should be aware of the problem of crime, even though it may have had no personal effect on us.

That's how I got it, anyway.

 

[HDM]

What is your point, RC?

"Are you the person who posted around a month ago that you keep your wallet close to your genitals? People who feel safe definitely do not even think to do this.

You have stated that you have limited use of Spanish. That will take you a long way to not having a complete understanding of the place where you live. Not even a close understanding. Not being able to watch the local news or read the local newspaper goes a long way to keeping people ignorant of the rapidly growing crime rate in Buenos Aires.

Nobody remembers the local rally against the rise of crime this past March in Buenos Aires? Where do you guys live? Or, is it that you just spend all day long on the internet so you "tune out" in that way.

Actually, most of the expats that I know that live in BA spend most of their life hiding in their apartments and living on their computers. It does not speak well for enjoying the city and all that it has to offer."

Okay. I get it. It is clear to many readers here, including me for sure, that you are a vindictive, mean-spirited, and rather nasty person (at least as you appear here, although good authority tells us all that you are in person just as meek and sweet as a little lambie), so I should expect a sort of "stalking" from you regarding my posts, although you stated adamantly twice that you had put me into the ignore column. If this is being ignored, I can hardly imagine what it would be like to have you paying attention to me. But that would take the fun out of stalking yours truly, wouldn't it?

Clearly this post slung at me has no purpose other than to taunt and/or mock me. This is your common style, so it is to be expected, since every response you make to me (and to others) has only those purposes. I don't think anybody takes you seriously and I do not need to point out when you lie, exaggerate, or twist words to change meaning.

But I will say ...

I protect my wallet in every city I have lived in everywhere on the planet; it's just common sense, not some special "fear" or paranoia about crime. No more so than being aware of one's surroundings anywhere in the world in a huge city makes simple common sense. This is not place specific.

I am aware enough of the public response to the crime rate here, probably in ways you could not even guess. But that's not what you wanted to say. You wanted to blurt the claim that not being fluent in some language makes you ignorant. Well, I wouldn't be quite that nasty about it, but I will agree with this -- "That will take you a long way to not having a complete understanding of the place where you live." Well, duh! I have lived all over the world, in cities representing, at a quick mental count, 11 languages. I am fluent in none of them, and there is no doubt I am not as immersed or adept in the local culture as a local person. Isn't this so obvious that it goes without saying? Oh, except that's not why you made the comment, is it. I am rather extraordinarily fluent in English, yet, I could not in good faith make the claim that therefore I am now versant and filled with understanding or even comprehension of the United States. What I know, I know well; what I don't know, I don't scream about. Try it.

You know, allow me to just say what it is people find so obnoxious about you, RC, because you seem so mystified every time someone here says how obnoxious your posts are. Read your last paragraph directed to me. It is packed with presumptions, with nasty-edged comments regarding things about which you cannot possibly have any factual information. The expats you know (I am not, by the way, someone you know) spend "most of their life (sic) hiding in their apartments and living on (as in on top of?) their computers (how uncomfortable that must be for them)." This may be true. Maybe most of the expats you know (how many would that be, by the way?) never leave their apartments and instead spending all day (and night, one guesses) living vicarious lives in cyberspace. I suppose we have an entirely separate set of expat acquaintances, because I don't know one (of, quick calculation, maybe 24, 25) who I could in good faith say spend their lives inside their apartments in front of a computer.

Frankly, I don't think you know people like that, either. I think it's just something you blurted out in a surge of mean-spiritedness.

And you don't know anything at all, not one important thing, about me. Except what I write here and how I write. And that is all we know of you.

 

[Joe]

And you don't know anything at all, not one important thing, about me. Except what I write here and how I write. And that is all we know of you.

She appears to know how to get under your skin...

 

[HDM]

Touche, Joe.

But it is not my habit to simply roll over for people with attitudes like that. Although, I know she pops off at me just to get a rise. Okay.

 

[betts]

We are 3 weeks into a 3 month assignment here is BsAs. My husband works and drives out to Tortuguitas everyday, we live in Puerto Madero. I honestly don't know what to make of what we have been told by the locals, but it has made me a bit uneasy. Here is a quick recap of some of the things we have been told (none by ex-pats by the way):

*The day before my husband's first day of work was the Independance holiday. A lovely and kind remisero took us to my husbands office building that day to show him how to drive there. Due to the holiday it was all deserted. He said make sure you stay in the left lanes, never in the far right lanes of the freeway. I asked why and he said so you don't get forced off the road and "pasar un mal tiempo". But don't worry nothing ever happens.
*At the office area near Olivos Country Club he said never turn right coming out of the office, always go left to catch the freeway. Don't drive in this area at night and if the stop light is red don't stop. He also pointed out a few other areas where one should not stop at a red at night. But don't worry nothing ever happens.
*The owner of our apartment reacted with a hushed Ohhh... when we told him hubby would be driving to Tortuguitas and he also repeated the don't stop at red lights at night in Tortuguitas and mentioned some other spots where one should not stop at red, but with no real clarity as to where these spots are. But gave the, by now really un-reassuring, don't worry nothing ever happens.
*There is a signal you are supposed to give the security guard at work if you believe you are being followed. But don't worry nothing ever happens.
*Walking in the Reserva behind Puerto Madero you should be careful but don't worry nothing ever happens.
*La Boca, don't drive there at night, don't walk by the water - but don't worry nothing ever happens.
*Last week the same remisero that drove us to my husbands office on our first day was driving a lady through a dodgey area in Las Tortuguitas and as he was slowing for a light when 3 men all with guns approached his car. He ducked, the lady ducked and he accelerated through the light. Nothing happened.

After all this, husband still drives to work and so far, knock on wood, nothing has happened. I have taken the Subte and taxis all during the day and have explored Palermo, Recoleta, San Telmo, the microcenter and so far nothing has happened. I try to blend in as best I can which isn't hard as I have dark hair and olive skin and keep low profile with no jewelry and a non-descript no-name black bag. We have chosen not to drive at night but take taxis if we go out and will be driving to an Estancia out direction Escobar on Monday and to Dave's for burgers today - during the day. We hope nothing happens.

 

[bigbadwolf]

As Igor speculated and Blah followed up, I can.

I am sure I could name many cities on the African continent, but will name the two with which I am most familiar: Johannesburg and Lagos. I also suspect many on the South American continent can be named, but I will name only the (other) one I am familiar with: Rio. On the North American continent, there are very many, but I will name only the four I am most familiar with: Washington, DC, Los Angeles, CA, Chicago, IL, and Mexico City. On the European continent, I can think of fewer than other places, but a couple I'm familiar with come to mind: Naples and Paris.

I've visited Lagos and it is easily much more violent, much more dangerous, than BsAs. I'v heard stories about Johannesburg but I have no first-hand experience. Generally any city in the world with a large African population will have a crime problem (sorry to sound racist, folks, just being candid). In Paris the dangerous areas will be the ones with large concentrations of Algerians and Moroccans. Likewise for Rio and Sao Paolo. The exceptions are cities like Moscow, Bogota, and Mexico City (don't know if Moscow is as bad as it was fifteen years ago -- Igor may know more).

In the USA, take the blacks out of the equation and the levels of violence and crime subside to West European levels.

 

[Joe]

Generally any city in the world with a large African population will have a crime problem .

Since BA does not have any African population then by BigBadWolf's logic there must not be any crime problem here.

I lived in Thailand that had similar problems with crime and it also did not have a black population.

It seems to me the leading causes of crime are poverty, drugs and corruption. And corruption is the leading cause of poverty. Is there a country in the world with low corruption rates that is NOT rich...

 

[Moxon]

I've spent time in dozens of cities with close to 100% African populations and only a small number would I describe as having felt threatening or having a crime problem (more than any other city has a crime problem).