Do you fear a crash similar to 2001?

[Bajo_cero2]

Wow, that's the first time that I've heard any K supporter admit that she lied! All my K friends believe that she is incorruptible, never ever lies, and is pretty much perfect in every way! From otherwise intelligent people its very frustrating.

Well, not worse than M supporters who still argue about him like the last hope for the Republic even he lied in everything and it is clear that he is a criminal and corrupt.

 

[Stantucker]

Fanatic is a laughable term to describe me as I am a pure capitalist and deplore any system that enslaves people be it communism or savage capitalism . As you can see in my post I complemented you on your intellectual abilities but I definetely believe you are out of touch with reality . The truth is most expats do not understand the real Argentina as they live in a exclusive bubble that maybe only 5% of people here touch .

On this forum I have been called many things but I take it on the nose . I am a very moderate person in my political beliefs and to be called a fanatic or a kirchnerista spat out by others like one is a raving communist is laughable . I grew up in a upple middle class greek cypriot home and my background was one of work , sacrifice ,and success. My own mother who is 84 does not receive a pension due to her declaring her full assets and earnings. She instilled in me good values that I carry in my heart today . I do not believe in government handouts for those who do not work . I believe though in government assistance for those who wish to work in running their own business with low interest loans and tax concessions,

The reality Stantucker for those who lived here between 2004 to 2011 there was a economic boom in Argentina unparrelled in the western world . This was not a artificial boom created by a bubble but one created by good economic policies at that time and low costs that allowed many to start up a business . Puerto Madero came up from swamplands and now it is one of the most glorious neighbourhoods of Latin America . That happened under the evil kirchners!! The economic boom transformed the city from Palermo ,Caballito , and Mataderos .

There was close to 10% economic growth for many years from 2004 to 2011 . I will always remember that period and compare then to this period of economic oblivion , stagnation, hyperinflation, and massive devaluation .

Perry, I called you a fanatic, not because I see you as anti-capitalist or pro-kirchner,but because you seem to believe that if one is from a certain zip code and/or doesn't share exactly your evaluation of the current situation, that person is out of touch with reality. I didn't like the K govts, but that does not stop me from seeing the good they did. For you, for someone to laud anything Macri has done is to be promacrista and not seeing things clearly. Also, even though you might not want to admit it, even in media like TN they show the dire situation the country is in and the explosive tinder box it is.

In regards to the golden K years, if you have your 30% poverty and a host of other economic problems, after starting with a budget surplus and having record injections of cash, there is still something wrong with that economic model, regardless of the growth. Obviously those years weren't so good for all and what kind of legacy did they leave? Which brings me back to the need for massive structural reform, not just a return to peronism.

 

[Stantucker]

Absolutely Stantucker. Chile is a great example. Like Argentina they have a really painful (and bloody) past. They are the model in South America now. I mentioned it a few times but Argentina needs a complete overhaul in many areas which would take a long time and probably almost impossible with all the special interest groups. It would be painful at first but in the long run it would get things more efficient.

In Argentina since the system is broken and tax laws don't make sense and there is so much inefficiency and corruption, most people don't want to do anything in white. It's literally almost impossible to do 100% in white even if you wanted to. Argentines think for the short-term while most other countries including/especially Chile think for the long-term. That's why the education statistics are so high compared to Argentina where many think only of today's hustle.

People don't invest in start-ups for the most part in Argentina because they only think short-term. On the flip side, Chile has a very vibrant start-up ecosystem.

I hope someday Argentina does have systemic change but I just don't see it. Most locals only think short-term and incapable of thinking later down the road. They are all fighting for the best they can do now and even when the economy is better it seems like they are in constant "survival mode". No matter which president comes next, no matter what ideas they have. Long term change is tough.

Also, whoever is in office has to have a lot of luck on their side as well as many factors for Argentina's financial health have external factors as well. Remember, no matter which side you support and even if we disagree with some things. In the end, we are all on this forum because we truly love Argentina. Think about it. We're posting tons and tons on a message board because we are that passionate about Argentina, a place that many of us call "home". So in the end we have more in common than we'd care to admit.

Great post, Earlyretirement! I couldn't agree more, especially in terms of our love for Argentina and that being what causes us to debate so passionately on this forum.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

In Chile they are nationalist, here people like Macri and his staff are traitors. This is the only remarkable difference among both countries.

 

[perry]

Perry, I called you a fanatic, not because I see you as anti-capitalist or pro-kirchner,but because you seem to believe that if one is from a certain zip code and/or doesn't share exactly your evaluation of the current situation, that person is out of touch with reality. I didn't like the K govts, but that does not stop me from seeing the good they did. For you, for someone to laud anything Macri has done is to be promacrista and not seeing things clearly. Also, even though you might not want to admit it, even in media like TN they show the dire situation the country is in and the explosive tinder box it is.

In regards to the golden K years, if you have your 30% poverty and a host of other economic problems, after starting with a budget surplus and having record injections of cash, there is still something wrong with that economic model, regardless of the growth. Obviously those years weren't so good for all and what kind of legacy did they leave? Which brings me back to the need for massive structural reform, not just a return to peronism.

Stantucker I live in Palermo Chico and most of ny friends are from the top barrios of this ctty. To state a truth is not fanatical but being realistic but it seems that your only arguments are to detour the subject and never present the facts. By the way Macri recieved over 200 billion dollars throgh bonds and loans etc but the central bank has only 50 billion dollars at best. Where did the rest of the money go and where is the accounting?

 

[perry]

In Chile they are nationalist, here people like Macri and his staff are traitors. This is the only remarkable difference among both countries.

Chileans have great traits in the sense that they work together for a common good as they are less individualistic than Argentinians. I do not agree that Chile is a model society as portrayed by many here as it is much more classist than Argentina. Inherently conservative. and rascist.

Argentina has had a huge middle class for over 100 years and Chile only now in the last 15 years has had the success that it is applauded for. I love Chile as a country for holidays but would never live there. For me my second choice is Peru a more interesting culture. vibrant. and friendlier people.

Chile is quite dour but its people are correct. If you are looking for economic stability though but do not mind constant earthquakes it is not a bad choice to live in and probably will be safer in the next years than Argentina.

 

[earlyretirement]

Perry, just out of curiosity, where are you moving to? I believe you mentioned in one of your posts you're moving out of Argentina. Where did you select and why? I'm just curious. I agree with you that I wouldn't live in Chile either. For no other reason that I find it kind of boring. It's almost impossible to find a city quite like Buenos Aires. It's a special city with warts and all.

 

[perry]

Perry, just out of curiosity, where are you moving to? I believe you mentioned in one of your posts you're moving out of Argentina. Where did you select and why? I'm just curious. I agree with you that I wouldn't live in Chile either. For no other reason that I find it kind of boring. It's almost impossible to find a city quite like Buenos Aires. It's a special city with warts and all.

I am deciding at the moment but in South America a great city to live in is Arequipa Peru one of the most beautiful cities of Latin America/ or Hobart Australia in the south of Tasmania a stunning colonial city .

 

[Ceviche]

Perry, you will be missed. Sorry to see you go.

 

[earlyretirement]

I am deciding at the moment but in South America a great city to live in is Arequipa Peru one of the most beautiful cities of Latin America/ or Hobart Australia in the south of Tasmania a stunning colonial city .

]

Thanks for sharing Perry. I'm always curious when long time expats move out of Buenos Aires. I have many of my friends (hold-outs) finally throwing in the towel and getting ready to move by the end of this year. Most of them back to the USA. My other ex-pat friends that still live in Buenos Aires are mostly retired and getting pensions in US dollars or Euros so they are hanging in there. Some other friends that wanted to stay in South America moved to Medellin, Colombia and really seem to enjoy it.

I've traveled around in Peru quite a bit but never been to Arequipa. Looks beautiful. Small for my tastes but looks really tranquil. Hobart also looks peaceful and beautiful. What's your time frame for a move? Thanks again for sharing good info on this board.