En Negro

jb5 said:
Can companies make many employees independent contractors/consultants? Is that equivalent to en negro? How does paying en negro impact employee benefits?

You can only have a very small % of your employees work as contractors. When I had my large office here it was 1 out of every 15 employees could invoice me as a contractor. Not sure if that number is still the same or changed in the last few years.
 
jb5 said:
Why does such a large portion of the population work en negro? Is this the preference of the employer or employee?

Percentage is diminishing, was 50% a few years ago, now it turns around 35%.

Of course there's a kind of vicious circle (higher the taxes, higher the fraud, less money coming in, etc.).

It's difficult to point out a specific reason, there are many :
A- The famous "viveza criolla"
- Historical culture of Argentina since the 18th century & before : before the Virreinato de la Plata was created, Buenos Aires had to survive economically, hence the underground economy that developped with nearby Portuguese colonies like Colonia del Sacramento for instance. Maybe is this one of the roots for the viveza criolla.
- The important Italian immigration and subsequent imports of certain aspect of the peninsula "folklore" (Combinazione, etc.).

B- The cyclical crisis :
Let's not forget that right after the ultimate crisis started (late 2001/early 2002), the whole monetary system went down here.
It was all about the Truco (exchanges : I'm a mechanic and I need a mason, you're a mason and your step-brother needs a mechanic, your step-brother runs a butcher shop and I'm marrying my daughter in a few months, etc...). Bad habits are hard to get rid of !

C- Level of taxes :
Good and bad argument at the same time. "Social taxes" here are likely much more than in the US but much less than in many EU countries (18 years ago I started a messenger's company in Paris : always had like 7 employees = thanks for the difficult nights at the end of the month when clients don't pay).
In fact, if there was a real political willingness to fight corruption, that would be a huge benefit for all (better acceptance from those who already pay to do so, "firm" incitation for others to start paying = then we could talk about disminishing the taxes).

Level of taxes is also a bad argument in my view because if bosses somehow have the choice to pay en blanco or en negro, low class employees don't, they'll take whatever job they can find just to eat (and to feed their kids). One of the persons I appreciate the most here is a 22 years old girl from a villa (sincere appreciation, "nothing hidden behind the bushes"). Smart but uneducated, fully trustable (when I leave for Uruguay I leave her in my house). I had the chance (no "bad" curiosity at all) to spend a New Year's Eve with her & her family in her villa, it was warming & nice. Right now she needs to feed her 3 1/2 years old daughter, buy her some decent clothes, she even thinks about sending her to a private school = result is that she accepted working from 5am to do limpieza for 8 pesos an hour, en negro of course. Does she have a choice ?!

If one talks about trabajo en negro, one needs to take a look at the ghosts (people you see in the street but that you will rarely meet for real).
Level of poverty in Argentina is of course very high, therefore the main point here is how to combine economical development & redistribucion de la riqueza.

Impossible bet ? I don't think so. Look at what did Lula (he ended up his mandate with +80% of approval... Not bad for an ex-obrero).
 
Frankly, I wouldn't want to work en blanco, either. The system doesn't work here, not the way it should and does in certain first-world nations. In Canada and many European countries, the justification for high taxes is visible daily through the quality of life: ample social services, clean streets, good schools. In Argentina, what's the incentive? Doesn't do much for national solidarity to see your taxes line the pockets of politicians, or fund Cristina's YouTube channel, while your neighbor working en negro brings home every centavo he earns (which is probably why AFIP has taken to begging Argentines, through TV ads and billboards, to please pay their taxes.)
 
jaredwb said:
This is a JOKE, right? HAHAHA

Have you walked on the sidewalks in Buenos Aires? Have you been to a public hospital lately? Have you seen the public schools and the level of "education".

Please, if you really think the outrageously high taxes are going to public services you are an idiot.

Thanks for getting personal you jackass.
It everone pays taxes they don't have to be "outrageously high" and if everyone pays everyone would care how they are spent.
 
starlucia said:
(which is probably why AFIP has taken to begging Argentines, through TV ads and billboards, to please pay their taxes.)

Well put. I usually put in to disbelieving family/friends back home in exactly these terms, and usually get shock in response; you have to see it to believe it.

Tangerine said:
It everone pays taxes they don't have to be "outrageously high" and if everyone pays everyone would care how they are spent.

The culture of corruption here between politicians and taxpayers/voters is a vicious circle which it is not easy to break out of. All the people who, as explained above very well, have no choice but to work in blanco, would hardly want to stake their (very) basic livelihood on the premise that this time there will be more effective and honest govt in charge, and it will be worth it.
 
Tangerine said:
Thanks for getting personal you jackass.
It everone pays taxes they don't have to be "outrageously high" and if everyone pays everyone would care how they are spent.

Come on...jackass is so boring, I'm sure you could think of a better name to call me than that.

Sorry, but again...you, or anyone else that actually believes that your taxes are going to fix Buenos Aires issues is either high, stupid, or just in plain denial (your choice).

How about, Government CUTS taxes on businesses. Businesses in turn hire more people in blanco. Those newly employed people pay taxes on their income.

MORE PEOPLE WORKING EQUALS MORE REVENUE TO THE GOVT.
 
If possible most people prefer to give the pay in negro because of the taxes, that's pretty much it. Those whom give the pay in blanco are those whom either own big corporations, companies or find themselves unable to do pay in negro even though it is likely they'd prefer to do so.
 
We`ve had my own businesshere for 7 years, paying upwards of 3 million pesos per year to the dear Afip..the best Afip rating possble and my employees are leaving for en negro positions because they dont give a damn about pension contributions they will never benefit from, nor taxes that mean no improvement in their daily lives..know how they feel...honesty doesnt seem to pay here!
 
I'd gladly join your company just to work in blanco.

There's two kinds of people here, those who actually want the benefits and trust one day they will be able to get their pension and those who don't.

Sad fact is once your monthly pay is over 4500 the AFIP takes about 800 pesos to cover up taxes, health care and pension stuff. It's actually a tremendous amount of money they are taking out from your monthly pay.

Funny fact is, those who work in negro wanna work in blanco and those who work in blanco wanna work in negro. Whoever understands people?
 
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