Food prices are amongst the highest of the planet

[Redpossum]

And this post flushed out the usual suspects that are willing to go along with your generally insulting, belligerent, and pedantic posts as along as they are long partisan lines. Keep beating us over the heads with your posts, Frank, never really wanting to engage in meaningful dialogue. We've come to expect nothing else from you and your loyal band of followers.

ad hominem, but admittedly Frank did it first.

Maybe we can all take a deep breath here.

 

[Stantucker]

The post was about food prices nothing else . There is no doubt that food prices in Argentina are amongst the dearest of the planet This was never the case before 2015 when food in Argentina was great quality and cheap

But Perry in 2015 wasn't a lot of that the result of price controls, something we know cannot go on indefinitely and just leads to a real jump in prices once those controls are lifted? There were tons of distortions in the economy then that helped keep food prices low but eventually those distortions were going to have to be corrected and prices were going to have to go up.

I know a family that lives in a small apartment in Rafaela, in the province of Santa Fe, so we are not taking about the landed gentry. The father's family had a cattle ranch near there, which was not profitable, or just barely so, because the price of meat had been kept artificially low by the Ks. And that wasn't the only price control. A healthy economy doesn't work that way and there will always be consequences to be paid in the short term by some, like this family, and then in the long term by many others.

I have many friends here of different nationalities that were struggling under Alberto's govt, having a hard time making it to the end of the month. And, of course, they are having an even harder time now, but they are not willing to give up on Milei because even though they may be suffering, they feel like he's making changes that have to be made and would not have been made otherwise. They don't care about his eccentricities and his abrasive style; they just want to see change. They don't want to continue to keep living pay check to pay check.

 

[TWB103]

Some people are positive contributors to internet forums. Others have pathological conditions.

I think its safe to say MDS (a la TDS) is now a thing.

Milei: *breathes*
MDSer: *WWZ zombie transformation*

 

[FrankPintor]

ad hominem, but admittedly Frank did it first.

Maybe we can all take a deep breath here.

Not sure where I made an ad-hominem attack here. I do, admittedly, like to poke fun periodically at @Stantucker since the first post he made about me as an avid reader of Pagina 12, at a time when I hadn't even heard of the publication. I thought it was funny, at least

Supporting a rather obvious fake post is an self-own on another level, though.

But I shall certainly take a deep breath as @Redpossum suggests. Maybe we can get back to the thread topic as well.

 

[Quilombo]

The California Gold Rush began in 1849. The Federal Reserve Bank was created by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

That doesn't invalidate your statement. Yes, inflation was out of control when the population of California went from 10K to 200K in the space of a few years. But it certainly means that The Fed had nothing to do with it, since it did not yet exist.

As for the comparisons to Japan, I am hesitant. Japan is just different and unique.

Well, as the saying attributed to Kuznets goes, there are four kinds of countries: developed, developing, Japan, and Argentina.

Anyways, I think what is getting lost here is the original topic of food prices, especially relative to domestic income. While I'd rather rent in Buenos Aires than say San Francisco, the fact that food prices aren't that different in either is the issue, especially considering that Argentines don't make a Silicon Valley income.

Is it cheaper to retire in Buenos Aires? Absolutely, your dollar will definitely go further, but for the 99% of the people that live in Argentina, the issue is trying to survive on say $500 a month when rent is $300, juice and bread costs more here than in LA, and the blender, oops, I mean chainsaw, is coming for electricity and gas subsidies.

While we're not in the worst situation in the world (I believe Nigeria's food crisis is worse, I read due to fuel increases, the depreciation of the Naira, and the wholesale cost of rice people are basically reduced to eating livestock quality grains) it's pretty bad ad as so much of Argentines' income is now taken up by everything costing more, people earning less, and Milei not just preserving, but raising taxes. Couple this with the fact that GDP is shrinking, and despite falls in consumption prices continue to increase (or remain static) you've got a perfect situation in why poverty will only continue to grow, followed by stagflation.

We're only 6 months in to Milei's presidency, granted, but nothing has fundamentally changed beyond everything costing more. There's still no freedom to import, we haven't been flooded with cheaper Brazilian foodstuffs, there's no dollarization or currency competition, the cepo and brecha remains, taxes have not only not decreased, but have increased under Milei, and we're headed for the worst recession since 2001. Some of these issues predate Milei, but he is actively choosing to prioritize, IMO, frivolous trips abroad to stroke his ego and the dic... egos of right wingers like Elon Musk and Netanyahu instead of addressing our domestic macroeconomic problems.

 

[Redpossum]

Well, as the saying attributed to Kuznets goes, there are four kinds of countries: developed, developing, Japan, and Argentina.

Anyways, I think what is getting lost here is the original topic of food prices, especially relative to domestic income. While I'd rather rent in Buenos Aires than say San Francisco, the fact that food prices aren't that different in either is the issue, especially considering that Argentines don't make a Silicon Valley income.

Is it cheaper to retire in Buenos Aires? Absolutely, your dollar will definitely go further, but for the 99% of the people that live in Argentina, the issue is trying to survive on say $500 a month when rent is $300, juice and bread costs more here than in LA, and the blender, oops, I mean chainsaw, is coming for electricity and gas subsidies.

While we're not in the worst situation in the world (I believe Nigeria's food crisis is worse, I read due to fuel increases, the depreciation of the Naira, and the wholesale cost of rice people are basically reduced to eating livestock quality grains) it's pretty bad ad as so much of Argentines' income is now taken up by everything costing more, people earning less, and Milei not just preserving, but raising taxes. Couple this with the fact that GDP is shrinking, and despite falls in consumption prices continue to increase (or remain static) you've got a perfect situation in why poverty will only continue to grow, followed by stagflation.

We're only 6 months in to Milei's presidency, granted, but nothing has fundamentally changed beyond everything costing more. There's still no freedom to import, we haven't been flooded with cheaper Brazilian foodstuffs, there's no dollarization or currency competition, the cepo and brecha remains, taxes have not only not decreased, but have increased under Milei, and we're headed for the worst recession since 2001. Some of these issues predate Milei, but he is actively choosing to prioritize, IMO, frivolous trips abroad to stroke his ego and the dic... egos of right wingers like Elon Musk and Netanyahu instead of addressing our domestic macroeconomic problems.

Well said, all around, but as to the last sentence of your post, why would you be surprised? Look at his first action upon winning the election. He didn't even wait to be inaugurated before running off to the USA to bow at the feet of his masters. The guy is a puppet. His job was to scuttle Argentina's entry into BRICS, and sell the country up to foreign capital through privatization. He doesn't work for Argentina.

One very small example - There are 5000 tons of food, purchased by the previous administration, sitting in warehouses. That food was supposed to be distributed to the comedores. But because some of them were accused of corruption, he cut off the food to all of them. If he cared about the Argentine people, he would at least release the food to the comedores which were not accused of corruption. But no, the food sits there while the poor go hungry.

No, this is not the first time the poor have gone hungry. Yes, there was also poverty and hunger under Alberto. But a responsible government would at least do what it can to help.

 

[antipodean]

If the point of this thread is really about domestic food prices versus local incomes, then why is no one talking about food costs as a simple % of average / minimum wages today vs. those last year? Instead we continue talking prices in Japan, California, Korea and Australia... all in USD or foreign currency and going for headlines like "highest food prices of the planet" as if such points are somehow relevant to Argentines.

Again, last year despite having artificially low food prices (price controls, production and logistic subsidies) most average-low earning Argentines were still not making it to the end of the month because their incomes were so low. Today their incomes are far higher than last year, and paritarias continue to catch up, already brining some sectors to well over 80% since January, but now costs far higher. Same, same, different?

I think it is fair to say that everyone is waiting for the day when regular Argentines won't just make it until the end of the month but they will have a genuine surplus of their own (however modest or grand) to spend, save, invest or enjoy as they see fit and so far that day has not (yet?) arrived and the basic problem of not making it to months end or not having a genuine surplus of their own is nothing new and nothing created by the politicians in power today - although they are tasked with now getting out of this mess, which frankly speaking despite ample ranting and raving, few have even able to offer constructive or well thought-out alternative methods as to how.

In the meantime for dollarized expats, the brutal and simple reality now is front up to this change in personal fortune, get a job that pays pesos or get out. Argentina has never been a stable market and likely never will be, the goods times will come and go.

 

[Stantucker]

Not sure where I made an ad-hominem attack here. I do, admittedly, like to poke fun periodically at @Stantucker since the first post he made about me as an avid reader of Pagina 12, at a time when I hadn't even heard of the publication. I thought it was funny, at least

Supporting a rather obvious fake post is an self-own on another level, though.

But I shall certainly take a deep breath as @Redpossum suggests. Maybe we can get back to the thread topic as well.

It wasn't an obviously fake post to me. Even one of your groupies replied to Reply Guy with "good for you," but your response is just another example of your belligerence and your nastiness.

 

[Ruta Otto]

Some people are positive contributors to internet forums. Others have pathological conditions.

I think its safe to say MDS (a la TDS) is now a thing.

Milei: *breathes*
MDSer: *WWZ zombie transformation*

So sorry not all of us idolize your dear leaders. I guess all of that new fangled critical thinking gets in the way.

 

[Ruta Otto]

It wasn't an obviously fake post to me. Even one of your groupies replied to Reply Guy with "good for you," but your response is just another example of your belligerence and your nastiness.

My good for you wasn't meant as a compliment, sorry for the confusion.