Foreign credit cards purchases at MEP rate

[Johnny]

I definitely plan to use my US passport as ID.

Same here.

 

[gracielle]

Automatic Google Translate of entire article:
3 November 2022

Nuevo dólar para extranjeros: 12 claves sobre el tipo de cambio a $ 290 para gastos con tarjeta

El valor dependerá de la cotización del MEP. Quiénes pueden aprovecharlo. Buscan captar US$ 1.100 millones en reservas.

www-clarin-com.translate.goog

New dollar for foreigners: 12 key items on the exchange rate at $290 for card expenses. The value will depend on the price of the MEP. Who can take advantage of it? On Friday, a new dollar will be enabled for foreign tourists who pay their expenses in the country with a debit or credit card. It is a mechanism by which expenses with cards from abroad in the country can be settled in the financial market at the value of the stock dollar (MEP), which at today's price stands at $290.

Here are 12 key items that are worth knowing to understand how the new operation will work....
....What will be the procedure of the new regulation. Tourists consume with the card. The card holder converts this expense at the exchange rate set for tourists from abroad. Tourists pay the cards in dollars and the card companies sell those dollars in Argentina through the financial market and then pay the businesses or services in pesos. The central idea is that non-resident tourists who visit the country can use electronic means of payment for greater security and convenience.

When will the normative become valid? On Friday the 4th...(as soon as it is posted in the Official Bulletin)

How is the card identified that it is from a foreigner? In the same manner as it is already being done. The chip and routing of the card indicates in which country it was issued.

What happens to Argentines who have cards issued abroad?
To enjoy this benefit, an Argentine must not be a resident of Argentina in addition to having a foreign card.

What happens to Argentines with dual nationality?
It is the same case as the previous one. In addition to having a foreign card, you must reside in another country. In other words, it is also designed for Argentines but for those who live abroad and come to visit.

It is only for credit cards or debit cards as well? It is for credit, debit and prepaid cards....

....Does the business do the conversion? Or the bank? Nothing changes for the business. The bank does not intervene. The conversion is done by the card holder....

 

[Johnny]

The reported economic benefit to Argentina will be exactly the same whether the foreign card is used by a tourist or a temporary or permanent resident. The focus on tourists by the government is likely purely for political reasons.

 

[steveinbsas]

As a resident of Argentina, before I would try to "use my passport as ID" when making purchases in Argentina with my foreign credit/debit card; hoping to get a more attractive conversion rate, which, according to the details (aka rules) of the plan, that I was not entitled to (or qualified to receiv)e, I would want to konw the consequences of doing so.

Would I actually receive the better rate because the "system" could not detect my resident status?...

... and if it did, would or could there be any "other" consequences as a result?

 

[Rich One]

Same here.

Will foreign tourists be required to show ID to use a Foreign CC? Seems unnecessary, since The system detects immediately the origin of a CC..?

 

[Quilombo]

not true, these transaction do NOT go thru AFIP.

Even if they did, I think people are over looking the fact that this would require an incredible amount of legwork and people power when the goal in the end is for the BCRA to obtain more dollars which this would achieve.

Let's see what the DNU says tonight, but there's nothing illegal about Argentine citizens or residents having bank accounts abroad, I mean, 90% of this website uses WU or MG to send themselves money this way, and that's a much easier, direct paper trail if people's concerns are related to having money abroad they're not declaring.

For AFIP to figure out that an Argentine or resident foreigner is using their foreign issued card you'd need to do the following:

- Obtain the transaction details from the business, or bank, or Posnet/Primsa (assuming consumer final, no DNI recorded by the business or foreign ID used)
- This would tell you at most the card holder name, country of issuance, and financial institution (keeping in mind that people can and do obtain debit and credit cards from countries in which they have no connection, i.e. Americans with Isle of Man bank accounts, Australians in New Zealand, EU banks being open to all EEA members, etc.)
- You would have to then cross reference the name with migraciones to see if they're a tourist, and RENAPER to see if they're a citizen or resident
- What if the person is named Juan Garcia? How many guys named Juan Garcia have visited Argentina, let alone live here? What about people who visit via La Quiaca? There's no migraciones enforcement there, so no record of them in migraciones or RENAPER, or if the Juan Garcia that is in migraciones is a Spanish citizen, but his debit card is actually BNP Parisbas because he lives in France, will AFIP know for sure this is the same person or not?
- As for Argentines or resident foreigners using said card, while Ignorantia juris non excusat and all that, you'd have to find a judge willing to believe that someone simply wasn't using their debit/credit card to pay like any normal country, but instead did it to violate ad-hoc rules made via DNU for foreigners, which I think is a heavy lift in my non-lawyer opinion
- Most transactions people make are still below the RG 4444/19 regulation that enforces mandatory IDing of consumer final via DNI/passport/CUIT/L which was recently upped to $43,010 ARS (or $146.60 at the current MEP rate)
- Also the state will get IVA si o si this way since there's no discount for paging en efectivo
- And most importantly, as I asked originally, who is going to do all the above, get all the warrants, etc, to what? punish the resident foreigners who gave their dollars to the BCRA instead of WU which never touch the state's coffers?

So, this is why, as a betting man, I don't think this is a trap. AFIP won't even convict people like Maximo K for not paying taxes, and people think they're is going to look for yanqui pensioners buying their $500 medialunas and café with their Bank of America card for not being tourists? Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think they have bandwidth or willpower to do so. You guys have seen what AFIP's website looks like, right? I'm amazed they even find the limited cases of fraud they do.

 

[Rich One]

Rests to know the actual penalty for Argies or "foreign residents" detected misusing this "benefit". If any.

 

[steveinbsas]

Rests to know the actual penalty for Argies or "foreign residents" detected misusing this "benefit". If any.

While ithe exact answer remains to be known, according to an Argentine lawyer who rarely misses an opportunity to plug his services, at least those who have citizenship cannot be deported...

...so those who only have residency should APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP FIRST!!!

 

[dsp27]

While ithe exact answer remains to be known, according to an Argentine lawyer who rarely misses an opportunity to plug his services, at least those who have citizenship cannot be deported...

...so those who only have residency should APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP FIRST!!!

I don't there's been anyone deported for not paying taxes. If so al the verduleros would be in Bolivia now....

 

[sts7049]

Even if they did, I think people are over looking the fact that this would require an incredible amount of legwork and people power when the goal in the end is for the BCRA to obtain more dollars which this would achieve.

Let's see what the DNU says tonight, but there's nothing illegal about Argentine citizens or residents having bank accounts abroad, I mean, 90% of this website uses WU or MG to send themselves money this way, and that's a much easier, direct paper trail if people's concerns are related to having money abroad they're not declaring.

For AFIP to figure out that an Argentine or resident foreigner is using their foreign issued card you'd need to do the following:

- Obtain the transaction details from the business, or bank, or Posnet/Primsa (assuming consumer final, no DNI recorded by the business or foreign ID used)
- This would tell you at most the card holder name, country of issuance, and financial institution (keeping in mind that people can and do obtain debit and credit cards from countries in which they have no connection, i.e. Americans with Isle of Man bank accounts, Australians in New Zealand, EU banks being open to all EEA members, etc.)
- You would have to then cross reference the name with migraciones to see if they're a tourist, and RENAPER to see if they're a citizen or resident
- What if the person is named Juan Garcia? How many guys named Juan Garcia have visited Argentina, let alone live here? What about people who visit via La Quiaca? There's no migraciones enforcement there, so no record of them in migraciones or RENAPER, or if the Juan Garcia that is in migraciones is a Spanish citizen, but his debit card is actually BNP Parisbas because he lives in France, will AFIP know for sure this is the same person or not?
- As for Argentines or resident foreigners using said card, while Ignorantia juris non excusat and all that, you'd have to find a judge willing to believe that someone simply wasn't using their debit/credit card to pay like any normal country, but instead did it to violate ad-hoc rules made via DNU for foreigners, which I think is a heavy lift in my non-lawyer opinion
- Most transactions people make are still below the RG 4444/19 regulation that enforces mandatory IDing of consumer final via DNI/passport/CUIT/L which was recently upped to $43,010 ARS (or $146.60 at the current MEP rate)
- Also the state will get IVA si o si this way since there's no discount for paging en efectivo
- And most importantly, as I asked originally, who is going to do all the above, get all the warrants, etc, to what? punish the resident foreigners who gave their dollars to the BCRA instead of WU which never touch the state's coffers?

So, this is why, as a betting man, I don't think this is a trap. AFIP won't even convict people like Maximo K for not paying taxes, and people think they're is going to look for yanqui pensioners buying their $500 medialunas and café with their Bank of America card for not being tourists? Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think they have bandwidth or willpower to do so. You guys have seen what AFIP's website looks like, right? I'm amazed they even find the limited cases of fraud they do.

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couldn't agree more. they don't have any interest in policing this, just as they have no interest in policing cuevas.