Hello! ...and a thousand questions about moving to BA

[marksoc]

Ok, the OP has money, and has more skills than most of the posters combined.

And he doesn´t want their kids to grow in a greedy and violent environment.

Welcome to Argentina! (if you can work remotely, maybe you´ll like more a place like Tandil, pop. 150.000 instead of BA, because BA=Paris, with all the good and bad that comes with it, pollution and good cinema and theater; some crime and materialism,etc etc).

And for the bashing expats from the States, go and try to get a good job back home, lets see how long it takes you.

Growing up in Argentina doesn´t mean that the world is closed to you, and in fact it is very nice to be young here, compared with the boring life of the American suburban youth (or in other places).

 

[citygirl]

I think people are pointing out that uprooting a family of that size without ever having come to Argentina is perhaps a bit... hasty. And the challenges inherent in it are daunting. Good on him for wanting his family to have international experience - I think that's great. But picking a country at random, with little or no knowledge of it, is not what I consider a well-thought out plan.

The OP has from what he wrote, a very well-paid job. The odds of him finding anything equivalent to that are somewhere between very slim and none. And supporting a family of that size on a local salary would be very, very, very hard. And doing the paperwork to do everything (assuming he does in fact intend to stay here in the long-term) would be incredibly difficult, time-consuming and just plain hard - especially since he is not bilingual.

Anything is possible but this certainly wont be easy.

And to the poster above - I think many kids in the US would disagree with your assertion that life is boring. Well - scratch that - I think teenagers the world over think EVERYTHING is boring

 

[syngirl]

Having a well paid job and having savings/investments don't necessarily equate -- I know a lot of people who make very good salaries and yet live paycheck to paycheck because they've got themselves in over their head on their cost of living (back in the States, and some people here who work just to keep up with their cuotas to Garbarino).

The reason I mentioned savings / investments is because I'm sure all of you who have been down here for awhile have all at some point had to dip into those savings -- if not during initial set up phase when things shockingly cost a lot more than expected (furniture, rent, any legal fees for setting up business etc), then sometime later when your local pay simply didn't cover that ticket back to the States for thanksgiving etc etc.

Everyone needs to have a cushion, but the OP's needs to be that much higher because of the amount of people involved. I hope he hasn't been reading those articles from years ago touting the $5 dollar dinners out etc. The cost of living is going up here, especially in Capital and the surroundings, so I'd hate to see him come down and not have things go as planned and not have the savings/investments to see the way out of it for such a group of people.

PS -- from original message, can't tell, is it 9 minors + 2 adult children + 2 adults?

 

[gsi16386]

Ok, the OP has money, and has more skills than most of the posters combined.

And he doesn´t want their kids to grow in a greedy and violent environment.

Welcome to Argentina! (if you can work remotely, maybe you´ll like more a place like Tandil, pop. 150.000 instead of BA, because BA=Paris, with all the good and bad that comes with it, pollution and good cinema and theater; some crime and materialism,etc etc).

And for the bashing expats from the States, go and try to get a good job back home, lets see how long it takes you.

Growing up in Argentina doesn´t mean that the world is closed to you, and in fact it is very nice to be young here, compared with the boring life of the American suburban youth (or in other places).

Hahahaha...doesn't want his kids to grow up in a Violent environment so welcome to Argentina???? HAHAHA What a numbskull comment. Look at stats, talk to friends, watch the news, and wake the fck up. There are no police ANYWHERE. The ones that are around are all paid off and may even commit crimes themselves. I've been here for a year and a half as far as raising kids, if I had the choice to raise them here or in the US it's a NO brainer.

As for finding a job in the States, it's tough out there...no doubt, but if you're a producer and don't bitch and moan like a crybaby, you'll find a job. Maybe not paying what you expect to be paid, but you'll be able to support yourself and your family.

and just a heads up, my life as an American Suburban Youth was far from boring. Maybe they have great programs here in Argentina, but I can assure you that in the US there are numerous clubs, organizations, school programs, and extracurricular activities to help aid in the development of today's youth and keep them out of trouble. So why risk that development by moving your kids to an environment that might not offer the same?

 

[Chaz]

I think you have made a good start by contacting the forum.

You said you would like your kids to have the experience of travel like you have had. I would have thought it may be a better experience if they and you waited until they were young adults and then they could set off with their rucksacks and explore.

Argentina is a difficult place for natives to get by, and I believe it is getting harder.

I just asked my Argentine girlfriend and she said, 'esta en pedo'.

 

[steveinbsas]

One other important consideration is that the two adult children will also need to qualify for thier own resident visas. They cannot be inculded as dependents by blanning and his wife. They will have to qualify independently with jobs or investment income of their own (or perhaps as students).

Here's a thread that Brian (if he is real) and others considering "moving" to Argentina might find relevant:

Wannabe Expats

It's helpful to know that Deb and Viviana were really "the same" person. There were a number of posts that were deleted after the last post that still appears in the thread. They were made in the early morning hours of 6-17-2008 by a "newcomer" who also appeared and vanished after posting only in this thread. They contianed some implied threats towards me. Jonny saved them and sent them to me. I'm sorry they aren't still there for all to see.

The arrival and departure of Andrew aka "adm" from the forum is also interesting and entertaining.

It's one of my all time favorite threads.

Here's the OP's first (and only post) and my (slightly edited) reply:

Quoting "Deb""
I'm still in TX... I have had just about enough of the madness in the US. The upcoming election scares me and I don't want to be here anymore. I am currently an airline pilot, but am willing to try
something else...

I would LOVE any advice any of you may have to offer on "chucking it all" and moving south. A prominent concern I have is that I have a 16 and a 14 year old... They aren't out of high school yet...

How much $ a month do I realistically need to live reasonably comfortably there? Any
info on schools and medical would be appreciated also.
Thanks."

Hi Deb,
I see your post has already received some replies, including one from a US based Argentine realtor/financial planner plugging Mendoza. There’s nothing wrong with Viviana touting Mendoza, but you did make your post here on the BA exapts forum, and I think it’s important that you get some information directly from BA expats. Being Argentine, Viviana and her husband will face few difficulties returning to live in Argentina. You and your children will face an entirely different situation.

Most expats coming to live here (not just "moving" here for six months or a year) either have a job lined up in advance or have enough incomefrom "untouchable" investments to satisfy the requirements of the office of Argentine migraciones. You can't just come here to "live" (legally) without a visa, and a work visa is required if you are to be legally employed. You can also live here if you have a guaranteed monthly income of about $900USD (for one adult...possibly more for the three of you) from a trust, pension, or an annuity. For this a visia rentista is required. Foreign (rental) property, money in bank accounts, mutual funds, child support, and alimony are not usually (or as easily) "accepted" when applying for the visa rentista.

I’m sorry to say that a foreign woman in her late 30s or early 40's wouldstand little chance of finding an acceptable entry level position in "something new" here, and even if she did, the pay would probably be abysmal by US standards. A "well paid" 40 year old professional woman I dated in 2006 was making a little over $1000USD per month here. For an entry level position, you would be competing for even lower wages with women half your age who are probably still living with their parents or other young women their age who are also working. A three bedroom appartment in a decent (not necessarily safe) area of Buenos Aires could easily cost over $1000USD per month (plus expenses and utilities). Your total monthly apartment costs would probably exceed your entry level income before taxes, and you would still face the need for food, clothing, health care, travel, and entertainment.

IF you could get a job as a pilot for an Argentine airline, you might be able to make it here, but I have no idea if they are hiring foreigners. I seriously doubt Argentine pilots are paid even half as much as you are paid in the US (unless you are flying for a small regional carrier). Average pay here is about 25% of comparable jobs in the US (according to other posts on this forum and Argentines I know). You would also be taxed at a rate of up to 30% in Argentina. Unless you pay into the Argentine social security system for (30?) years, you will not receive any "retirement" benefits. As US tax law is now, your Argentine income (up to $85KUSD) would not be taxed in the US You may still be required to pay into US social security, but I'm not certain.There is also a 21% IVA tax on most goods and services here, not to mention the fifth highest inflation rate in the world today. The official rate is 9.5% but few believe that figure. Many items in the grocery store haveincreased in price by 50% or more in the past year, some in the past few months. This includes sunflower oil, coffee, cheese, and chocolate, just to name a few. Most groceries, with the noteworthy exceptions of beef, wine and beer, cost about the same as in the US now, and the selection here is limited compared to the USA.

I am not sure if your dependent children would be "entitled" to a "free" education under the conditions of a temporary visa. There are also several important considerations: Do your children expect to go to college in the US? Will a "diploma" from an Argentine school (public or private) satisfy the entrance requirements? After 2 to 4 years in school here will they stand a chance of scoring well on the SAT or ACT? Will they still qualify for “resident” tuition at a state college or university in the US if that is an important consideration? Most important of all, do your children want to leave their present schools, friends, the rest of the family, and even their own future in the US...in order to have a life here?...a life which a number Argentines I know would gladly trade with them!

As for health care, you and the kids would be able to go to any public hospital in Argentina and receive "free" medical care, but you would probably want "private" care (at least $300 US a month for the three of you for full coverage) as soon as you became aware of the differences between the public and private systems. I have been told that there are "better" public hospitals out of the city (and probably in Mendoza as well).

If the upcoming election in the US scares you, the present socioeconomic and political situation here will scare you even more as you become aware of the reality of life here (especially if you learn Spanish and read the newspaper regularly). Street crime, including mugging, robbery, home invasion, and kidnapping (for ATM withdrawals) here are far greater in the “better neighborhoods” of Buenos Aires than in those of any US city The US devotes a lot more resources than Argentina to catching, prosecuting and
imprisoning criminals (TWO million inmates!). Argentina doesn't have theresources to go after these thugs, so we just live with them, literally. I'm 6'2' and weigh almost 200lbs, and, while I am not as "likely" a target, I know that anything is possible. An Argentine man I know who is ten years younger and 50 pounds heavier than me was robbed at gunpoint in a San Telmo grocery store at 5 in the afternoon!

Believe it or not, I’m very happy here, but I love even more the two or three months each year I spend in San Francisco and its environs....and the occasional month in Paris. I lived in Mexicofor five and a half years before moving to Argentina two years ago, and I still consider that move a significant upgrade. I received my "baptism under fire" in Mexico (two home invasions and numerous police (traficos) shakedowns), so I was able to adjust to life here rather quickly. Speaking Spanish (well) is essential, unless you only want to associate with other expats, and that's not why I moved here.
I suggest you find the thread Help me decide? by Hannah in the expat life forum. She was considering "moving" to Buenos Aires from Ibiza with her two year old daughter. Although the details are somewhat different than yours, it was another example of "the grass is greener" syndrome. There were some thoughtful replies to her post, but I don't think she actually ever visited Argentina.

As a result, even now she probably knows nothing of the "madness" to be found in Buenos Aires. Until you actually spend some time here, neither will you.

UPDATE: The income requirement for the visa rentista is now $8000 pesos ($2000 USD) per month and since 2008 the price of premium beer (Stella Artois) and chocolate (alfajors) has increased by almost an additional 100%! Most private health insurance plans have increased by at least 66% in cost since 2008 as well.

I am also happier than ever now that I live about 600 KM from Ciudad Buenos Aires.

 

[Risu]

Brian,
Do not let anyone, no matter how well intentioned, rain on your dream of coming to Buenos Aires! We came and in a matter of weeks, without speaking Spainish bought a house & subsequently have spent the last 18 months renovating it from top to bottom. Yes, it was challenging but we did it! We have children also & found great schools. All our children are now totally fluent. All is possible, & after three years, we are still completely enamored with this country, city & people.
We found a huge help in Maria at 'Settling in Services' Buenos Aires. She provides a total personalized service for whatever your needs. She helped us find English speaking doctors, a school for our pre-school daughter, immigration, maid...and she offers accompanied assistance. One night when our daughter was really ill & we could not understand the doctor, she came to our house to translate! She is great!! Should you want to contact Maria, her email is [email protected]. Best of luck & if we can answer any questions just send us a message.

 

[Risu]

Brian,
Just recalled last year at Club de Amigos, I met three couples with children. They were all in IT world in Seattle. One night at dinner, they all decided to sell everything and move to Buenos Aires. They all bought apartments in Palermo & all found employment. I will try to find there contact information. Perhaps it would be useful to you.

 

[Risu]

Brian,
Another note, over the past 5 years, we traveled extensively in VietNam, Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Italy, France, Spain, Greece and several other countries.
Met many Expats who had found their dream but once we visited Buenos Aires, it was it for us.

 

[steveinbsas]

Does anyone know what happened to Janet and Chad (posting as janetandchad)?

They decided to retire here earlier this year (without ever visiting) but haven't made any posts since shortly after their arrival.

Ok Buenos Aires here we come...

Here is the thread I suggested they read: Expats not happy, why stay?

For every expat who is happy here I wonder how many more have come and gone without finding it or even coming close.

Brian didn't say that he had a dream of moving to Argentina. He just wants to get out of the USA and is considering several destinations. He is asking questions and looking for information. He needs answers that give him a "clearer" picture of reality here (such as the visa requirements for his "adult" children). He didn't indicate that he would be willing to spend several hundred thousand dollars to buy property to house his clan (he might need to spend even more if he wants to continue living at "the top of the food chain"). Buying property may indeed be a key element in living the dream here for some expats (including me), but it doesn't always work out that way. HotYogaTeacher's story clearly illustrates the pitfalls of deciding to move here as well as buying property too quickly (or spending too much on the remodeling).

PS: I wasn't being sarcastic when I suggested they move to Utah!