How can we improve Argentina?

[nikad]

after trying five different directions to offer my services gratis or without mentioning anything. all were dead ended. not received well. and basically left me feeling rather poorly so to speak. in more truthful words, they made me feel like my opinion, my offer, my ideas were stupid as an outsider. in two of the cases they were people that i was sent to by portenos who thought i had something to offer. i still would like to help but really question whether there are many ways to open up some of the minds here.

You made me curious what kind of services you offered and were rejected?

 

[fedecc]

I think its great that foreigners try to make Argentina a better place to live. But very often foreigners (from wealthy countries mostly) come here preaching the revealed truth, looking to set us free from our wicked ways and to enlighten us with the ways of the civilized world, usually ignoring the fact that this problems are not unknown to the natives and that there are already local people, projects, NGOs, academics, etc. that are working on solving those problems.

So my advice is, if you are looking to help or you have a particular project, try to contact the locals that are already working in those problems. Otherwise you will most likely be seen as an arrogant foreigner.

Fortunately, I haven't seen this attitude in this forums.

 

[John.St]

after trying five different directions to offer my services gratis or without mentioning anything. all were dead ended. not received well. and basically left me feeling rather poorly so to speak. in more truthful words, they made me feel like my opinion, my offer, my ideas were stupid as an outsider. in two of the cases they were people that i was sent to by portenos who thought i had something to offer. i still would like to help but really question whether there are many ways to open up some of the minds here.

Now the really interesting question is: How did you present your offer?

Most Argentinos are well aware of the shortcomings in Argentina but, as in any country, if you stick it up their noses, they get defensive and refuse your help.

Imagine a foreigner in your own home country telling you and compatriots how and what to do about ...

Analyze your own approach.

Was it
1. "Hi fellers, I like what you are trying to achieve, and if you want my assistance to do what you are already doing, say so, I like Argentina, its nice people and you folks and am only glad to assist in your good work."

or was it more like

2. "I know what's wrong, so let me fix it."

You know, I don't ,and see no reason why you should tell me, but search yourself.

If you did it right - i.e. approach #1, then find "Asociación de Acción Solidaria", they will appreciate "assist in your good work", if you are willing to perform "menial work" in the kitchen or collecting food and/or money.

 

[soulskier]

I think the key is to make it seem as though it is their idea. Don't tell them what to do, just suggest how it is done where you come from. Also, identifying "forward thinking Argies" to spread the message seems to be effective.

 

[John.St]

I think the key is to make it seem as though it is their idea. Don't tell them what to do, just suggest how it is done where you come from.

I once learned a manipulative but efficient technique.

You prepare a proposal, analyze it and make sure it is absolutely honky dory.

Then you insert one obvious flaw + one slightly subtle flaw.

Present your proposal to the decision maker.

If he finds both flaws, he now sees the proposal as his own idea, although he may have had a minor inspiration from you - all is well and you tell him, what a good (not great - you are just a little bit envious) idea he got.

If he only finds the obvious flaw, you just nod and look thoughtful, but you do not comment now. A a couple of days later you comment on the obvious flaw he found and pretend he found the subtle one too - "fortunately you spotted ..." - nine times out of ten he will make himself believe he spotted both.

Whether 1 or 2, you have now changed paternaty, it is his baby and he is prepared to fight for his idea, beak and claws.

You don't get the kudos you deserve - so what - nothing will stop your proposal.

As you can see, I am not a really nice person, but I happen to be pragmatic, which is alpha and omega in my business - get it done!

 

[BlahBlah]

Can I get classes from you John?

 

[John.St]

Can I get classes from you John?

I've been teaching Argentino politicians for close to 25 years now, classes in "How to clean out public funds without getting cought" and similar subjects.

Menem, that miser, was unwilling to pay my 9,000 Euro/hour fee and look where that got him! The Kirschners did attend but keep forgetting the "without getting cought" part.

 

[BlahBlah]

No I just would like to learn from your brilliance about life lessons

 

[Matt84]

As a local I believe expats should be less shy when getting involved into local affairs. One may tend to forget that many if not most Argies are descentants of inmigrants entirely, not just from Spain, not exclusively from Catholic backgrounds, and that our inmigrant grandparents, some never got the citizenship and yet they consitute the foundations of what's best of Argentina today.

As politically incorrect as this may sound, it is the same reason we like Argentina enough to live here.

On the other hand, it might not even be a matter of native vs newcomer but of sheer social status, as we see Ukranians and Asians coming in even greater numbers than 1st worlders.

I don't think you, nor I, have any duty to the country we reside in, other than complying with local laws which contemplate more than generous taxation.

However if you actually want to make your community a better place, lead by example and by demand. I can say that the influx of expats has already made a difference in terms of general quality standards. "That's a good thing"

 

[BlahBlah]

Does that mean that once you have an Argentine kid you are part of the Argentine society?

Is there really a (large) influx of Ukranians? I thought it was more a thing from the early 90's