I feel like a real estate purchase is pretty much a gamble here...

[expat0tree]

My wife and I have found a nice little campito outside the city and made an offer on it through the local real estate office, now we are waiting for a response from the seller to see if we can agree on the price considering all the visible issues with it (from what we know thus far) but we cannot know what might be hidden unless we learn everything about the documentation as well and the legal issues that are relevant. I told the realtor that ideally we would like to make one trip to their office with the full amount and pay everything at once and sign the escritura, pay commission and additional fees once we learned everything we need to know, but the realtor tells me that we first have to pay a deposit during the negotiation process which is puzzling because we run the risk of losing our deposit if there is an intolerable issue with the documents that we are simple not willing to deal with or if the seller decides to remain stubborn. That's a very clever way of entrapping the potential buyer into buying a distressed property but that's not how real estate should be sold, am I missing something?

The realtor told me that the seller won't be paying for cedula catastral unless we make the deposit or sign the boleto first but how can we sign the boleto de compra venta if we do not know the fine details of all the documentation? They say: "podemos resolver cualquier cosa, no pasa nada". That to me sounds more like the verdulero who sold me rotten eggs. First show us what you've got and then we can tell you if we are interested in, in the case of the eggs unfortunately i cannot break them before buying them but in case of real estate there should be laws in place allowing the buyer to learn the truth about the real estate product prior to committing their money, even if its a relatively small deposit. We also need to know how long it would take to finalize the escritura based on the given circumstances because that would affect our willingess to pursue this particular case, but no, they still insist on some form of deposit, can anyone explain this? How can we simplify a cash real estate transaction and minimize the risk of losing money on botched attempt? specifically referring to information being withheld on purpose in order to pressure us to either pay more through fonny negotiation or lose the deposit while trying.

 

[steveinbsas]

My wife and I have found a nice little campito outside the city and made an offer on it through the local real estate office, now we are waiting for a response from the seller to see if we can agree on the price considering all the visible issues with it (from what we know thus far) but we cannot know what might be hidden unless we learn everything about the documentation as well and the legal issues that are relevant. I told the realtor that ideally we would like to make one trip to their office with the full amount and pay everything at once and sign the escritura, pay commission and additional fees once we learned everything we need to know, but the realtor tells me that we first have to pay a deposit during the negotiation process which is puzzling because we run the risk of losing our deposit if there is an intolerable issue with the documents that we are simple not willing to deal with or if the seller decides to remain stubborn. That's a very clever way of entrapping the potential buyer into buying a distressed property but that's not how real estate should be sold, am I missing something?

The realtor told me that the seller won't be paying for cedula catastral unless we make the deposit or sign the boleto first but how can we sign the boleto de compra venta if we do not know the fine details of all the documentation? They say: "podemos resolver cualquier cosa, no pasa nada". That to me sounds more like the verdulero who sold me rotten eggs. First show us what you've got and then we can tell you if we are interested in, in the case of the eggs unfortunately i cannot break them before buying them but in case of real estate there should be laws in place allowing the buyer to learn the truth about the real estate product prior to committing their money, even if its a relatively small deposit. We also need to know how long it would take to finalize the escritura based on the given circumstances because that would affect our willingess to pursue this particular case, but no, they still insist on some form of deposit, can anyone explain this? How can we simplify a cash real estate transaction and minimize the risk of losing money on botched attempt? specifically referring to information being withheld on purpose in order to pressure us to either pay more through fonny negotiation or lose the deposit while trying.

I bought my first apartment in Capital Federal without a boleto, and before I gave the real estate agent the deposit (a check on a US bank which I knew would not be cashed before the bloeto) my escribano called him. There were no "issues" as the seller already had the informes (cedilea catastral?) showing the title was free of liens.

Based on what you wrote it sounds like you already know about some issues with the property. In my opinion, the seller and real estate agent are raising a huge red flag by saying "podemos resolver cualquier cosa, no pasa nada".

If you don't have an esctibano, now is the time to choose one. Don't let the seller or the agent recommend one for you. Also remember the buyer has the choice of the location for the closing. The seller usually chooses the location of the boleto. As you already have the funds available, there's no reason to have a boleto as you aren't selling one property to buy another. If, however, the seller is living at the property, he may need time (and money) to buy another. The apartment I bought in Recoleta was unoccupied and we had the esctritura fifteen days after I saw the apartment for the first time.

PS: Before I bought that apartment I made an offer on a house in Tigre. I used the real estate agent and the escribano recommended (actually insisted on) by my Argentine girlfriend. There was a lien on the property. I backed out of the purchase (more so because I really didn't want to live in Tigre with or near my soon the be ex-girlfriend), got my deposit check back, and the escribano told me I owed him nothing.

My best advice or you regarding the next step is to have your escribano talk to the real estate agent. It may only take one phone call to determine whether to proceed or walk away.

Good luck!

 

[steveinbsas]

PS: I believe the informes are only good for a limited period of time (but may be "renewable" if a lien is pending and the seller or his agent tells the escribano about it).

 

[Jerbo]

The real estate market here is populated by local professionals who deceive, rob, extort and lie to foreigners for sport. You will be best served if you assume that every real estate "professional" you interact with is trying to dishonestly screw you. If you make that assumption, you will be right 9 out of 10 times and you will unfairly judge someone 1 out of 10 times. It's a ratio I have accepted.

After a few years here, I have developed a policy: as soon as a person or establishment treats me dishonestly in any way - and I mean in any way at all - I walk away from them and never go back. I have learned that if you persist in dealings with a dishonest local person here, it always gets worse and the result is always bad.

I recently looked at a furnished apartment for rent. Before the visit, I asked the "owner" if the bed was a single mattress or one of those hack jobs where Argentines push together two mattresses and call it a "king." She assured me it was a single mattress. Upon arriving at the apartment, I lifted the sheets of the bed and sure enough - it was two mattresses pushed together. I noted this to the girl - who was really an agent but said she was an owner. The girl said she did not know, the other person did not inform her, blah, blah. I walked out right then. It was only going to get worse from there.

 

[expat0tree]

@steveinbsas, @Jerbo

thank you for your feedback, it is obvious now that we need to get our own escribano and skip the boleto since the campito un question is not occupied and there is no reason for us not to buy it out right if the papers can be put together on time. let's see what happens next, responsiveness is another issue, they seem to take their time while we are being impatient.

 

[steveinbsas]

The real estate market here is populated by local professionals who deceive, rob, extort and lie to foreigners for sport. You will be best served if you assume that every real estate "professional" you interact with is trying to dishonestly screw you.

As I said in my previous post, at this point you should have an escribano/a and he/she should talk to the agent on your behalf. I doubt the escribano will even charge you for this if you make it clear you are serious about buying a property in the very near future.

I recently looked at a furnished apartment for rent. Before the visit, I asked the "owner" if the bed was a single mattress or one of those hack jobs where Argentines push together two mattresses and call it a "king." She assured me it was a single mattress. Upon arriving at the apartment, I lifted the sheets of the bed and sure enough - it was two mattresses pushed together. I noted this to the girl - who was really an agent but said she was an owner. The girl said she did not know, the other person did not inform her, blah, blah. I walked out right then. It was only going to get worse from there.

The real estate agent my Argentine girlfriend insisted I use was the same agent who sold her an apartment in Tigre. At the boleto my girlfriend also discovered that the agent was also the owner of the apartment. My girlfriend still insisted I ONLY looked at property with the same agent. That should give you some indication of how bad the rest of them must be.

 

[steveinbsas]

it is obvious now that we need to get our own escribano and skip the boleto since the campito un question is not occupied and there is no reason for us not to buy it out right if the papers can be put together on time.

Good plan.

Just curious: Has the agent asked if you already have an escribano and/or tell you to use one he knows?

let's see what happens next, responsiveness is another issue, they seem to take their time while we are being impatient..

It strikes me as somewhat strange that the agent and seller are dragging their feet.

PS: If I was in your shoes I'd continue the property search.

 

[expat0tree]

Just curious: Has the agent asked if you already have an escribano and/or tell you to use one he knows?

they want us to use their own escribano supposedly because that's what the seller prefers and feels more comfortable with, but if the choice is ours legally then it definitely makes our life easier, we are scared to death having to travel for over an hour with cash in the realtor's car (we don't have a car yet) to seller's escrow...

 

[semigoodlookin]

Just seems like you are going through a standard Argentine business experience. My advice here is if you smell a rat, run away as fast as possible. You are here, so that rat has been smelled.

 

[steveinbsas]

they want us to use their own escribano supposedly because that's what the seller prefers and feels more comfortable with....

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

we are scared to death having to travel for over an hour with cash in the realtor's car...to seller's escrow...

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

SKIP THE BOLETO AND MAKE THE SELLER COME TO YOU!!!

HAVE THE ESCRITURA IN WHATEVER FINANCIAL INSTITUTION (BANK OR CASA DE CAMBIO) WHERE YOUR FUNDS ALREADY ARE (OR WILL BE).

THIS WAY YOU WILL NOT BE IN THE STREET WITH THE CASH!!!!

YOUR FEARS ARE WELL FOUNDED!!!!

PS: I APOLOGIZE FOR YELLING (IN CAPS) BUT YOUR FINANCIAL FUTURE AND YOUR LIVES COULD BE AT RISK IF YOU DO WHAT THE SELLER PREFERS!!!!