I feel like a real estate purchase is pretty much a gamble here...

[expat0tree]

If the seller is willing to pay this fee it might be worth considering. Otherwise, why would the buyer pay this when they (should) have he option to select the location of the escritura? Even if the property only sells for $50K USD, that one percent would be $500 USD.

do most people pay and sign at their chosen escrow's office or at the bank? we haven't chosen an escrow yet and don't have a safe deposit at the bank either primarily because we don't know anything about those safe deposit boxes, if anyone can explain a bit, do they cost a lot to rent? what are the conditions? do you have to declare the contents of the box etc? thanks

 

[steveinbsas]

Okay and what about putting the money in a safe deposit box at a local bank? Would the escrow then show up at that bank with the seller to sign off all the documents and receive the money at the same time? or would the money have to be moved from the safe deposit to yet another location where we have to sign? And does the bank gets involved in this transaction in any way or can the contents of the safe deposit box be completely confidential? thanks.

You can have an escritura or a boleto at the same bank where the safe deposit box is located. This is a common practice in Argentina. The bank will charge non account holders a small fee to rent a private room.

 

[London2Baires]

You can have an escritura or a boleto at the same bank where the safe deposit box is located. This is a common practice in Argentina. The bank will charge non account holders a small fee to rent a private room.

Yep, exactly this.

 

[steveinbsas]

do most people pay and sign at their chosen escrow's office or at the bank? we haven't chosen an escrow yet and don't have a safe deposit at the bank either primarily because we don't know anything about those safe deposit boxes, if anyone can explain a bit, do they cost a lot to rent? what are the conditions? do you have to declare the contents of the box etc? thanks

I tried to rent a safe deposit box in Capital Federal (Belgrano) but none were available.

If you pat at an escriban´s office you will have to transport the funds to that office. For obvious reasons, I don´t think that´s a good idea.

I am not absolutely certain, but I believe that you must declare any funds that are not in a bank account at the end of each year and if they´re not in a savings account they may be subject to the bienes personales tax.

It´s the escribano´s responsibility to determine the origin and the legitimacy of the funds. Unless you are transferring funds from outside Argentina, the escribano should ask for evidence they have previously been declared in Argentina. In other words, that the funds were earned or acquired en blanco

If the funds are being transferred from abroad, the escribano will ask for evidence regarding the source of the funds as well.

PS: Additional rules, laws, and conditions may apply.

PS2: An unscrupulous escribano (chosen by the seller) could, for example, allow the buyer to pay 33% of the purchase price at the boleto without asking about the origin of the funds. Then, just before or even at the the closing he could ask for the evidence and delay the sale until it was provided.

If the money is not en blanco, what could the seller do at that point?

 

[steveinbsas]

If the money is not en blanco, what could the seller do at that point?

This should have been, ¨If the money is not en blanco, what could the buyer do at that point?¨

In other words, how could he get back the 33% he already paid?

 

[expat0tree]

If the money is not en blanco, what could the seller do at that point?

the money is not in blanco and since the actual value of most properties is well below the listed sales price we didn't think of this as having to be a problem and we still hope we won't be put through hoops by the escribano, unless the seller wants to declare the full purchase price to AFIP or something... much like many people here my wife and i were working at a company that pays employees in cash and so naturally that's what we have to deal with now, conversion of cash into real estate with preferably minimum exposure and if an old structure on the property is the reason why some AFIP papers must be filled out then maybe we should look for empty land and spend the money on building instead? that would certainly complicate everything but its not impossible, i'm a builder and can tolerate difficult conditions. just to be clear we are thinking of spending anywhere from 50 to 75, is that low profile enough? if not then i guess an empty chacra would be left as the only alternative, we really don't feel like feeding AFIP at this time.

 

[steveinbsas]

the money is not in blanco and since the actual value of most properties is well below the listed sales price we didn't think of this as having to be a problem and we still hope we won't be put through hoops by the escribano, unless the seller wants to declare the full purchase price to AFIP or something...

Even if the seller wants to declare a lower price on the escritura than the gales price, I believe you will still have to demonstrate the origin of the funds in the amount that is declared on the escritura and that the declared price should be in line with the current valuation by ARBA ( which increased as much as tenfold in 2018)

...much like many people here my wife and i were working at a company that pays employees in cash and so naturally that's what we have to deal with now, conversion of cash into real estate with preferably minimum exposure and if an old structure on the property is the reason why some AFIP papers must be filled out then maybe we should look for empty land and spend the money on building instead? that would certainly complicate everything but its not impossible, i'm a builder and can tolerate difficult conditions. just to be clear we are thinking of spending anywhere from 50 to 75, is that low profile enough? if not then i guess an empty chacra would be left as the only alternative, we really don't feel like feeding AFIP at this time.

Are you saying that no papers have to be filed with AFIP if you buy land with no construction? That may be the case, but I´ve never heard of it.

Have you asked the real estate agent if the seller has papers (al dia) in his name or if he is selling with rights of possession (aka without a clear title)?

PS: Have you seen the ARBA bills showing the provincial property taxes for the past few years and do you know if they are they in the name of the seller?

Last year, the valuation of my property with 247 mtrs2 covered construction increased from $150 THOUSAND ARS to a little over $1.5 MILLION ARS. I was told at the office of ARBA that a similar percentage increase happened in the entire province and that even though 40% of the covered construction on my property is the old galpon which is not quite yet inhabitable, the quality of the construction or livability of the buildings was not relevant.

I just received the 2018 property tax bill from ARBA. My property taxes in pesos more doubled just since last year, but since the dollar increased in value more than that, I´m paying less in dollars: less than $200 USD for the entire year. That´s about twice as much in USD as I was paying eight or nine years ago. I´m not complaining, but some of my neighbors have been hit hard by the increase.

 

[expat0tree]

Are you saying that no papers have to be filed with AFIP if you buy land with no construction?

As far as i know there is an additional paperwork to file in case of an existing structure on the property even if it is no longer habitable or even if it's falling apart. if the land can be bought for much cheaper it would make sense for ARBA to have a lower value on it, unless ARBA changed valuations on absolutely everything as of late, then we have no choice but to declare 100% of the purchase value in which case we have to keep it as low as possible, i would rather spend that money on materials and tools, although again, purchase price split between two people my wife and i, there is a chance we can still get away without loosing a portion of it, more info needed. We definitely need to consult with an escrow and come to a decision before we make a deposit.

The company we worked for still owns us a ton of money that we'll never see so it makes no sense for us paying afip on top of all this mess...

 

[steveinbsas]

Getting back to my suggestion of having your escribano contact the real estate agent...

All he or she has to do is ask the agent to send him a scanned copy of the escritura when he acquired the property as well as the latest ARBA property tax bill. It will take less than two minutes for the escribano to check the tax status of the property on the ARBA website.

If you know the ID number of the property you can do this yourself.

 

[expat0tree]

Have you asked the real estate agent if the seller has papers (al dia) in his name or if he is selling with rights of possession (aka without a clear title)?

Yes we asked but no concrete response so far, all they said that it is a sucesion, basically two brothers who had already supposedly finalized the papers and all but there is no evidence of this. Once we find our own escrow we'll simply let the realtor to communicate with our escrow about the papers and based on that we'll see if the property is even worth pursuing, but of course we'll mention the undeclared money to our escrow and try to work something out.