Ghost, I don't think you would dare make such bigoted comments about the other great religions. When the nut case pastor wanted to burn holy books there was an outcry that it was an outrage, bigoted and ignorant. How are your comments any different? The Catholic Church is not looking to increase its bank account. It teaches the sanctity of human life. PERIOD. That also applies to the death penalty which is not sanctioned by the Catholic Church. Sara is right when she says that the unborn child has a right to life and that the mother should have thought of that before she got pregnant. Laws exist to protect society. Murder is illegal. Abortion is considered murder in Argentina and I disagree that the ban is not widely supported. Keep in mind too that Argentina is officially a Catholic country whose constitution "sustains" the Catholic faith.
I wish them well, it's about time for choice.
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MizzMarr
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sergio said:
Woah woah woah. Ok, so I'm largely bowing out of this discussion because it simply can't be discussed in a rational manner. You have your beliefs, and you should be entitled to live by them just as people who hold other beliefs should also be allowed to live by their own moral code.
But I can't resist. the Catholic Church is one of the most financially powerful institutions in the world, and is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. If you don't think that they're interested in their bank account you are sorely mistaken. Additionally... it teaches the sanctity of human life? PERIOD. REALLY?? Maybe you should google Catholicism and Torture (Spanish Inquisition anybody?) to learn about how much it values the sanctity of human life--especially if you don't agree with them. Please. And don't go arguing that they may have murdered millions of people in the past and that it doesn't count now. If your god were really omniscient and omnipresent, there would be no need for backsies.
MizzMarr said:
After this, I'd say it's definitely the time to close this thread. Attacking people's religion can results in catastrophic blowups.
One last point about abortion: while I believe it is wrong, I respect the right of others to view it differently. But I refuse to subsidize a procedure which, to me, is akin to murder. Therefore, NO FREE ABORTIONS in public hospitals.
I'd rather my taxes go to fund sex-education courses, and distribute free condoms, diaphragms, and the like. No woman HAS to get pregnant unless she elects to - that is the real choice.
Yes, the Catholic Church profoundly emphasizes the sanctity of human life and is a huge provider of social services and charity world wide. In Argentina this is quite definitely the case. It's absurd to bring up the abuses of the Inquisition hundreds of years ago. There is no institution in history that has not abused its authority at some time or other. Anyway I am not talking about the Catholic Church 500 years ago. I am talking about NOW. If you read the Argentine press you ought to know that the Catholic bishops are a constant thorn in the side of the government. They repeatedly press the government to be more transparent, to distribute wealth more equitably and to care for the needs of the poor.
I am not sure about abortion, it is a very difficult topic. Not out of religious belief, but I hate the idea of killing babies just because the parents were too stupid to avoid pregnancy through other means.
The government should definetely invest in sexual education.
The government should definetely invest in sexual education.
First and foremost, a woman who wants an abortion... will find one... illegal or not. It's going to happen anyway. The number of women who end up dead or in the hospital from botched abortions is huge in Argentina (the only statistic I could find was that between 1995 and 2003, 55,000 women were admitted to hospitals with abortion related injuries and that the abortion rate is about double the global average in Argentina). Obviously, abortion being "illegal" isn't working out so well. Since it is going to happen regardless, women should be given a safe, legal option.
Obviously, education and prevention is the desirable option here but in reality, things don't always work so perfectly. Many people aren't educated, many people believe birth control is a sin (thanks catholic church), and many people (especially teenagers and young adults) think they are invisible and that these sort of things don't happen to them. Abortion is a reality, not a debate, in life. It's not the state's job to impose morals on its citizens.
And last, which is more of a burden for the state?
An abortion or a child that no one wants?
Obviously, education and prevention is the desirable option here but in reality, things don't always work so perfectly. Many people aren't educated, many people believe birth control is a sin (thanks catholic church), and many people (especially teenagers and young adults) think they are invisible and that these sort of things don't happen to them. Abortion is a reality, not a debate, in life. It's not the state's job to impose morals on its citizens.
And last, which is more of a burden for the state?
An abortion or a child that no one wants?
"No woman HAS to get pregnant unless she elects to"
All this talk about sex education means nothing to a victim of rape. I have yet to hear about a rapist that puts on a condom before attacking. What do you believe when you see a victim of rape carry the baby of the rapist and give birth to the rapist's child? What if the raped woman was you (if you are a woman), what if the raped woman was your wife (if man) or your daughter?
I predict a lot of double standards and hypocrisy if that were the case, it's different when it's personal.
All this talk about sex education means nothing to a victim of rape. I have yet to hear about a rapist that puts on a condom before attacking. What do you believe when you see a victim of rape carry the baby of the rapist and give birth to the rapist's child? What if the raped woman was you (if you are a woman), what if the raped woman was your wife (if man) or your daughter?
I predict a lot of double standards and hypocrisy if that were the case, it's different when it's personal.
It is proven (in Belgium anyway) that with legelizing abortion, there are less abortions then before. Before, a girl just 'had it done' illegally. No matter when no matter how far the pregnancy. Mostly they were just on their own and couldn't talk to anyone about it.
Now it is legal, but under certain circumstances (before the 12th month if I am not mistake and after a good talk with the doctor. ) That is the most important difference : there is posibility for dialogue, which wasn't posible before.
For me abortion would never have been an option (also I have never been pregnant without wanting it), but in certain (not many) cases it is the best option to stop the pregnancy.
Now it is legal, but under certain circumstances (before the 12th month if I am not mistake and after a good talk with the doctor. ) That is the most important difference : there is posibility for dialogue, which wasn't posible before.
For me abortion would never have been an option (also I have never been pregnant without wanting it), but in certain (not many) cases it is the best option to stop the pregnancy.
