"Insecurity is just a perception"

[vr236]

I felt safer in NY, but if you use your street smarts you will be fine.

 

[JHB1216]

Argentine social services - hospitals, clinics, schools, etc. - are pitifully underfunded, and so overloaded that they are unable to serve even the locals. They can't be expected to take care of the flood of immigrants from neighboring countries who get here and find themselves with no job, and without the skills to get one.

This is a very interesting thread and I hear a lot of what you are saying from my Argentine in-laws and co-workers. Someone told me that the government provides a cash payment to Bolivians for having babies here. They could not explain to me why and I do not know if it is true. Has anyone else heard of this?

 

[citygirl]

Well the government does provide maternity payouts (3 months of salary). I would think you would have to be in white though to take advantage of it. Let me dig up the exact wording of the law, I have somewhere.

 

[dirtyauzzie]

Im not sure of the exact facts about the maternity payouts, but they are not available to everybody. The girl that cleans our house once a week, who is the homehelp of the administrator of our departments is pregnant and she is not entitled to maternity pay, which is about 3 months, because she is 'domestic help' and they are exempt. She lives in a very poor bario out in the province, has nothing, wont be able to work soon, but does not get the maternity benefit.

 

[jayjane]

It is politically incorrect to say this, but keep in mind that half the people in the villas are not Argentines.

They are Bolivians, Peruvians, and Paraguayans who came by their own initiative. The country is under no obligation to provide them with affordable housing, like some poster wrote.

Argentine social services - hospitals, clinics, schools, etc. - are pitifully underfunded, and so overloaded that they are unable to serve even the locals. They can't be expected to take care of the flood of immigrants from neighboring countries who get here and find themselves with no job, and without the skills to get one.

I don't care if it is politically incorrect to say this. I am talking about basic rights for humans. I am not advocating government housing for everyone. I just wanted to put more of a human face on this issue. These are people in a tough situation who have not had the privledges many of us have had in life. It is hard to understand what it is like to be in this type of position if you are far removed from these types of daily struggles. I found it offensive that you even mentioned the person with a flat screen in the villas. That implies a very negative picture of people there.
Of course social programs are underfunded, that is where a lot of the difficulty is. Too many people in need. What do you expect people to do in this situation. Would you stay in your own country if you thought it might be better somewhere else? Would you try to get all the services you can for your community for free it it were possible? I would and that is why it is difficult to address these types of issues. I think many of us would do the same. As long as the economic situation is like it is, poverty levels will continue to rise.

 

[SaraSara]

This is a very interesting thread and I hear a lot of what you are saying from my Argentine in-laws and co-workers. Someone told me that the government provides a cash payment to Bolivians for having babies here. They could not explain to me why and I do not know if it is true. Has anyone else heard of this?

It is quite true. It is called "Asignacion por hijo" and is about two hundred pesos pesos per month, per child. An undocumented Peruvian girl I know is collecting it.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

They are Bolivians, Peruvians, and Paraguayans who came by their own initiative. The country is under no obligation to provide them with affordable housing, like some poster wrote.

Wrong. There is no difference between citizens and inhabitants regarding civil rights.

Argentine social services - hospitals, clinics, schools, etc. - are pitifully underfunded, and so overloaded that they are unable to serve even the locals. They can't be expected to take care of the flood of immigrants from neighboring countries who get here and find themselves with no job, and without the skills to get one.

Those immigrants mainly are construction workers, there is a lack of them.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

It is quite true. It is called "Asignacion por hijo" and is about two hundred pesos pesos per month, per child. An undocumented Peruvian girl I know is collecting it.

http://www.anses.gob.ar/aaff_hijo/hijo.pdf

180 pesos and 720 if he or she is handicapped.

 

[kre8ivelyXposed]

Early retirement wrote:
"That's correct about them stealing the electricity. I don't have much experience in this other than the case of the building my friend bought. But they had tapped in illegally to get electricity and I think they were stealing some from their neighbors as well."

Bottom Line: Stealing, lying, and cheating are all occupations of the poor that they learn from the rich. As long as you have these kinds of extreme inequalities among socioeconomic classes you will continue to see petty thefts (albeit it utilities or pocketbooks) and "shafting" by one individual towards another.

I have never seen such a society (like in Argentina) in which so many individuals base their INTELLIGENCE on how well they can "con" or deceive another person. Where does this come from? What are its origins? One can not simply blame the government because essentially even the government is a reflection of the values of the society in an alleged "democracy."

I work for the airlines and fly every week to Buenos Aires. The planes are just full of Argentines sporting their status labled "Gap" shirts, Nike tennis shoes, and other "name brand" First World consumer goods. The message is "Look at me....I have something you don't have". If these are the values being transmitted it should be no surprise that others will be looking to "steal" from you what you have. And you can't say that people just need to "work hard" so that they can attain the same quality of life because the fact is many people are working very hard and not receiving much at all in return. Whether you are "stealing" electricity in a villa (lower class) or underreporting income (white collar crime), the bottom line is that there is a lack of "civilized" checks and balances within the society and the byproduct of that is "uncivilized" behaviors.

 

[fifs2]

http://www.anses.gob.ar/aaff_hijo/hijo.pdf

180 pesos and 720 if he or she is handicapped.

I have say it`s always interesting to read your posts Bajo_cero as we sometimes become entrenched in our own way of thinking that we just cannot understand the logic of others so poles apart. You take the time to address key points and provide data without resorting to childish insults as per our old friend Cabrera.
I`m not sure that I would agree that we who think that denying that 20%+ inflation are green...my own perspective would be that you are chosing the wrong benchmark against which to measure your country`s success. Measuring it against it`s own pitiful performance in years of hyperinflation is like comparing yorself to the class idiot and feeling good about it.
I will be the first to say that my own country (Ireland) nor that of my son`s birthplace (USA) are good benchmarks in these recent years...look to European success models (Sweden, my husband`s birthplace) and then compare Argentina`s growth and inflation in tandem ...Swedes are not inclined to live in boom and bust cycles, they have low expectations of massive growth spurts thus delivering a more balanced society without extremes of rich or poor...No country is perfect (Sweden`s above average suicide rate for example) but it is important to be able to be self critical or any of us run the risk of being blindfolded sheep led once more over the cliff edge...