It's Too Expensive Here!

[earlyretirement]

I bought an apartment here in Cadiz in 2001. If you have any questions PM me.

Thanks Steve! I just sent you a PM. But feel free to also answer here if you want and it can educate the mass forum.

My friend that is from Spain told me there is no big annual property tax each year. He said there is some tax but it's less than $500 US per year for the property/asset tax. I need to do some due diligence as I haven't started yet but it's always nice to hear from those that own properties and can give their real life experiences. He cautioned against long term rentals and said that it's hard to get a tenant out with their laws. But it's like that in Argentina as well but at least you can diminish your risk with getting a guarantor.

I'd be curious to hear what expenses are like (HOA, gas, water, electricity, cable/internet, etc). He said they were all fairly cheap.

 

[chris]

I am often curious why the Americans don't take more advantage of Puerto Rico. It is basically broke so you should be able to live like a king, you don't need to go through the hassle of visas at all since it is US, you don't pay federal taxes (for the time being, because of their debt there is talk they may reform the taxes), you have good connections to the USA and the rest of the Caribbean. And with the language and culture it has the foreign feel while still getting some of the benefits of being American. I only know it on paper and through a friend that writes for some soap operas there and with this huge Puerto Rican children's tv show (that now streams on Netflix). It seems like it would absolutely suck to be poor there - and there is a lot of poverty, but there is an awful lot more here in Argentina it seems. However if most of the pensioner's there are getting only 500 bucks a month, it seems like the Americans who come down here would be able to live like kings there.

I would love to hear from someone who knows Puerto Rico why it isn't more of a destination for Americans!

Puento Rico is not nearly as interesting culturally or historically as Spain. It does not have the sophistication of Spain. It is not in Europe with all the benefits of living in close proximity to other European countries. There is resentment among the Puerto Rican people over their colonial status. These is a lot of poverty. I suppose you could live in a little bubble of expat prosperity and try to ignore all the rest but personally I think I could relate better to Spain and the Spaniards.

 

[chris]

OK, then I suggest you use google to find expat forums with comments on this topic by individuals who have gone through the process of obtaining a visa to live in Spain and are now living there.

It took less than a minute to find this: https://www.expatfoc...ight=residency/

Thanks but this thread has turned to Spain and living there. That's why I have posted questions here. I know that I can google.

 

[steveinbsas]

Is it that bad to live in the US? There is so much variety that I can't see why you go through the hassle to live in Spain, and then just for 6 months per year...

I think Chris is looking for a place to live year round and Spain appears to be an attractive alternative to Argentina. If I was ten years younger I would consider living in Argentina five and a half months of the year and in Spain for five and a half months of the year (with travel to other European countries if desired).

I would also consider spending less than thirty days of the year in the USA in order to qualify for the foreign earned income exemption of approximately $100,000 per year, provided I had an on line business I could operate from anywhere in the world.

By spending less than six months of the year in Argentina I would not be taxed on my "foreign" income and the same should go for Spain. I'd just be a 90 day tourist who gets a 90 day extension in each country.

I know at least one member here would say "You should pay taxes in Argentina on income "earned" while in Argentina," but if my business was on line and I had no Argentine clients and no DNI, how could I?

Based on other posts I've read in this forum, you can't pay income taxes in Argentina if you don't have DNI and I've never heard of AFIP or migraciones trying to get tax payments from someone who is legitimately here for less than six month of the year (with a tourist visa and a prorroga de permanencia that extends the visa for 90 days.

Besides the foreign earned income tax exemption, not having to buy medical insurance in the USA (assuming Trump can't "fix" Obamacare) or having to pay an exorbitant fine for not buying an approved plan is another reason to stay out of the USA for at least eleven months of the year. The link Chris provided that features a "health insurance" (pretty much accident only) policy that is acceptable to Spanish migraciones only costs $1050 per year!

 

[fifs2]

Thanks Steve! I just sent you a PM. But feel free to also answer here if you want and it can educate the mass forum.

My friend that is from Spain told me there is no big annual property tax each year. He said there is some tax but it's less than $500 US per year for the property/asset tax. I need to do some due diligence as I haven't started yet but it's always nice to hear from those that own properties and can give their real life experiences. He cautioned against long term rentals and said that it's hard to get a tenant out with their laws. But it's like that in Argentina as well but at least you can diminish your risk with getting a guarantor.

I'd be curious to hear what expenses are like (HOA, gas, water, electricity, cable/internet, etc). He said they were all fairly cheap.

Sorry Im British/Irish so cant comment on the US residence process. I can confirm there is a wealth tax - the first 700k euro are tax exempt.
Utilities aren´t cheap. Spanish electricity prices are some fo the highest in Europe https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2016/06/06/cost-electricity-spain-high-eu-standards/
The bonus of the Andalucian climate and 50 average days of rain per year means you really only need heating Dec - Mar max. Some of the newer builds thrown up during the boom are of shocking poor quality. I´ve a friend whose house is mould ridden and freezing all winter. If you buy wisely and arent a friolero you can get by with an electric heater. Some data:

Water (for 59 days) - 285 euros July - Aug. We have a well but when it runs dry we water the garden daily (750 sqm). This was for 2386 m2 consumption
Electricity (for 59 days - 3 story house, 330 sqm, pool Dec - Jan) - 512 euros for 1,947 kilowatts consumption
Gas - we have gas central heating + cooking - 8 large bottles every winter - approx 330 euros
Fibre optic internet+phone package - approx. 200 euros per month
ABN equivalent - 1250 per year daily bin collections on street, quarterly grass cutting + weekly street cleaning


Hope that helps. Narrow down a city or town and then start to look into exact and current costs. Food across the board is ludicrously cheap, embarrassingly so. Breakfast this morning for 3 adults - 4.95 (3 coffees, mollete tostado each - that´s a long roll for the Bsas folk!)

 

[Girino]

I'll come visit Spain during my summer trip, then!

 

[chris]

Sorry Im British/Irish so cant comment on the US residence process. I can confirm there is a wealth tax - the first 700k euro are tax exempt.
Utilities aren´t cheap. Spanish electricity prices are some fo the highest in Europe https://www.spanishp...h-eu-standards/
The bonus of the Andalucian climate and 50 average days of rain per year means you really only need heating Dec - Mar max. Some of the newer builds thrown up during the boom are of shocking poor quality. I´ve a friend whose house is mould ridden and freezing all winter. If you buy wisely and arent a friolero you can get by with an electric heater. Some data:

Water (for 59 days) - 285 euros July - Aug. We have a well but when it runs dry we water the garden daily (750 sqm). This was for 2386 m2 consumption
Electricity (for 59 days - 3 story house, 330 sqm, pool Dec - Jan) - 512 euros for 1,947 kilowatts consumption
Gas - we have gas central heating + cooking - 8 large bottles every winter - approx 330 euros
Fibre optic internet+phone package - approx. 200 euros per month
ABN equivalent - 1250 per year daily bin collections on street, quarterly grass cutting + weekly street cleaning


Hope that helps. Narrow down a city or town and then start to look into exact and current costs. Food across the board is ludicrously cheap, embarrassingly so. Breakfast this morning for 3 adults - 4.95 (3 coffees, mollete tostado each - that´s a long roll for the Bsas folk!)


Interesting info. What about the terraced houses I've seen in some of the links here. I assume utilities would be much cheaper. Taxes low? And prices in large cities like Madrid. Have youi any idea how they compare to BA? I wouldn't know neighborhoods so hard to compare to areas in BA.

 

[chris]

I think Chris is looking for a place to live year round and Spain appears to be an attractive alternative to Argentina. If I was ten years younger I would consider living in Argentina five and a half months of the year and in Spain for five and a half months of the year (with travel to other European countries if desired).

I would also consider spending less than thirty days of the year in the USA in order to qualify for the foreign earned income exemption of approximately $100,000 per year, provided I had an on line business I could operate from anywhere in the world.

By spending less than six months of the year in Argentina I would not be taxed on my "foreign" income and the same should go for Spain. I'd just be a 90 day tourist who gets a 90 day extension in each country.

I know at least one member here would say "You should pay taxes in Argentina on income "earned" while in Argentina," but if my business was on line and I had no Argentine clients and no DNI, how could I?

Based on other posts I've read in this forum, you can't pay income taxes in Argentina if you don't have DNI and I've never heard of AFIP or migraciones trying to get tax payments from someone who is legitimately here for less than six month of the year (with a tourist visa and a prorroga de permanencia that extends the visa for 90 days.

Besides the foreign earned income tax exemption, not having to buy medical insurance in the USA (assuming Trump can't "fix" Obamacare) or having to pay an exorbitant fine for not buying an approved plan is another reason to stay out of the USA for at least eleven months of the year. The link Chris provided that features a "health insurance" (pretty much accident only) policy that is acceptable to Spanish migraciones only costs $1050 per year!

I'm curious about living in Spain. I'm not in a position to do so at the moment but it interests me. I'd rather be in Europe where there is more history and culture and the lifestyle that appels to me. I don't much like the US lifestyle. Also the best places (which are the least "American" like NY and San Framcisco) are the most expensive.

 

[fifs2]

Chris for sure a terraced house or appt would be much cheaper utility wise. My friends in apartments don´t have any heating. They think it´s funny an Irish lass needs central heating but honestly in winter in a well built house with thick walls you´d be warmer outside than in as the houses are built to keep the summer heat out. I´m sorry I don´t have any comparisons at hand but I´ll do 2 things
1. ask a local friend who lives in a lovely old apartment block for details on her expenses
2. ask my Argentine lawyer who left Bsas to live in Madrid 1 year after us. He came to visit us and decided to retrain for Spain as a result. He had a lovely house with pool & garden in La Lucila. I´ll ask him for direct comparisons when he´s here in Easter week.

 

[glasgowjohn]

Sorry Im British/Irish so cant comment on the US residence process. I can confirm there is a wealth tax - the first 700k euro are tax exempt.
Utilities aren´t cheap. Spanish electricity prices are some fo the highest in Europe https://www.spanishp...h-eu-standards/
The bonus of the Andalucian climate and 50 average days of rain per year means you really only need heating Dec - Mar max. Some of the newer builds thrown up during the boom are of shocking poor quality. I´ve a friend whose house is mould ridden and freezing all winter. If you buy wisely and arent a friolero you can get by with an electric heater. Some data:

Water (for 59 days) - 285 euros July - Aug. We have a well but when it runs dry we water the garden daily (750 sqm). This was for 2386 m2 consumption
Electricity (for 59 days - 3 story house, 330 sqm, pool Dec - Jan) - 512 euros for 1,947 kilowatts consumption
Gas - we have gas central heating + cooking - 8 large bottles every winter - approx 330 euros
Fibre optic internet+phone package - approx. 200 euros per month
ABN equivalent - 1250 per year daily bin collections on street, quarterly grass cutting + weekly street cleaning


Hope that helps. Narrow down a city or town and then start to look into exact and current costs. Food across the board is ludicrously cheap, embarrassingly so. Breakfast this morning for 3 adults - 4.95 (3 coffees, mollete tostado each - that´s a long roll for the Bsas folk!)

A mollete is a round roll like a pan arabe , at least its like that in Antequera!