July 10Th Pope Visits Paraguay

[ajoknoblauch]

precios cuidados para todos!

It's the government's strategy for promoting exports.

 

[ElQueso]

Paraguay is certainly not a rich country. It takes some time before a lot of people that came here manage to spread their feelings about being here back home and even more time to convince Paraguayans (and, certainly, other nationalities who immigrate here) "back home" that the streets here really aren't paved with gold.

I told my brothers-in-law some 5 years ago that coming here was going to lead them into problems in the future. They could have stayed on the farm and helped their father grow it - and indeed, their plan became that they were going to come here, make some money, and go back and help the father expand the farm and get it past the sesame stage. They had saved some money and then a couple of years ago they started getting hit a bit by inflation. Rising costs to stay in their low-end hotels/pensiones, to buy food and so on.

Now, they're stuck. They stayed too long. They got comfortable. They are struggling on a daily basis just to make ends meet, their savings long gone, and they have one foot here and one foot back in Paraguay because at least there they have land and can grow their own food if they have to. there are other things they lack there that they have here, but the disparity is slowly closing.

Meanwhile Cristina and people like Bajo and Matias keep telling us how good the economy is here and how poor and undeveloped is Paraguay. I don't know the numbers for returning immigrants, but it's kind of like deaths in a war - everyone back where my wife comes from, one of the worst parts of Paraguay, knows someone who spent years here working and has returned because they are getting choked. And when you choke Paraguayans economically, that's really saying something.

And while all this is going on, Argentinos look down on the hard-working Paraguayans (not that they're all hard working, or even honest, I'll grant you that) as poor immigrants who came here to take advantage of the system (an argument not without complete merit). They talk about how badly the Paraguayans are taxing their system - which they opened to everyone, not just the Paraguayans (i.e., I wonder what you guys expected to happen??)

However, I hear stories about Argentinos desperate to find work, who have gone to work in the verdulerias where most of my brothers-in-law work and can't seem to hack it. They can't work like the Paraguayans, even when they are without work. They come in late, leave early, miss many Mondays and a lot of Fridays and even when they're there, they complain about having to work. I wonder who will do all the work the Paraguayans do (do I need to list them?) if Argentina was to throw them out. Nah, better to rag on them and keep them in their place, but tolerate them.

Meanwhile, the Argentine peso continues to fall and the Paraguayan guarani holds its own quite well over the last few years. Places like Asuncion are over-filled with imported products as Japanese businessmen come into the country and have bought up or leased all the warehouse space and there's an actual shortage - yet another business opportunity in Paraguay. Encarnacion has a booming middle class as developers are building houses and supplying relatively low-cost mortgages and rents to families who have not traditionally had great housing - yet another opportunity. Ciudad del Este, meanwhile, supplies its citizens with both opportunities for trade, as well as relatively inexpensive imported products - and supplies the same to many Argentine families who drive there and bring back what they can. To the point where Argentina wants to crack down on its citizens bringing cheap stuff back and has placed road blocks for inspections.

Paraguay certainly has its problems, including a ruling party that has been in power for almost 80 years now, and is also full of corruption and ignorance and couldn't give a rat's ass about most of its own citizens if there isn't something in it for them. But times change. With some economic success comes more for everyone, better education, more demands for equality, and so on. No country lifts itself out of poverty in a short time, but Paraguay is slowly rising while Argentina bobs up and down on the waves of a non-cohesive, no-firm-goal political party's whims.

 

[sleslie23]

Insert Mexico and the United States in the above and it would be just as applicable. The only major difference is that Paraguayans can work here legally.

PS: Queso, I always read every word of your Paraguay posts.

 

[glasgowjohn]

I have been visiting Paraguay for 30 years.
In December i was in Asuncion , Pedro Juan Caballero and Ciudad del Este - Asuncion was very buoyant , the border cities less so as they have felt the effect of the Brazilian slowdown . But in general the people seeemd happy with the President and the changes he has brought in.
I saw a lot of foreign investment and people seem to be keen to look to the medium and long term - totally unlike Argentina

 

[ajoknoblauch]

PS: Queso, I always read every word of your Paraguay posts.

For all my disagreements with El Queso, I still find his observations on Paraguay informative.

 

[ElQueso]

I've mentioned this before here, some years ago: back in 2008 my business here had tanked due to the financial issues in the US and Europe ("crisis global" as they call it here - I was offshoring software development work from the US to Argentinos here) and I went to Asuncion with the thought of buying some property before I spent all my savings on mere survival where I was. While I was there, I met a real-estate agent who was plugged into quite a bit there, both economically and politically.

He was brimming with business ideas and how to accomplish them.

One of them involved writing some software to review satellite photos to give the government some way to find property that had been improved but undeclared for property tax purposes. When we got to talking about that more, I brought up a whole slew of questions and possible logjams to prevent us from doing something like that. He told me "tomorrow let's go meet with the President of the Senate and he can give you a better feeling about a lot of these issues." I had only known the guy for a couple of weeks and thought "OK, yeah, sure..."

8:00 AM the next morning, we met outside the Senate offices building (not the actual chamber) and he took me inside, past the security, up the elevator a few floors and down the hall to the guy's office. I was surprised - I had met other Paraguayans who promised a lot of things but never actually delivered anything. After about a 5 minute wait, we were ushered into the President of the Senate's office (as a General from the Army was leaving, to whom we were introduced) and we sat down and talked. I'm not a rich, influential guy, certainly not used to moving within such a rarefied (even for a small, poor country) stratum and I have to say that this was really something for me.

We sat and talked for about 15 minutes and the guy was practically gushing at the thought of a foreign investor coming in and talking about investing in Paraguay. We talked about a number of possible projects, including the satellite analysis, and he had nothing but good thoughts about all of them. He practically tripped over himself assuring me that any investments we made in Paraguay would be protected, not looked at as a way to steal from the gringo. Later experiences I had there seemed to support his attitude.

I ended up not getting involved in the satellite analysis project. It was principle, primarily - as most of you know, I have a problem with governments and taxation anyway. Heh. But it was tempting.

I almost got involved in another project with the real estate agent. We were looking at buying land outside of Encarnacion and developing the property into a neighborhood, and offer low-cost, ten-year loans to people to buy lots and houses. Only problem was we needed about $150K investment money to start (the property itself was really cheap) and I didn't have that much. I couldn't interest anyone else in going in with me on that. The guy ended up finding investors and made a lot of good money - still is as far as I know, though I haven't talked with him in a couple of years.

Later, a couple of us here decided to import slot machines from Peru (I had another acquaintance who knew an Australian in Peru who imported used machines from his home country, refurbished them and leased them to casinos there) into Paraguay. we started a company and got a bank account (with the help of a lawyer) in about a week - complete with the ability to wire money from outside the country (we never wired anything out, don't know how easy that would have been). We even ended up buying 500 licenses for imported slot machines from the newly-revamped gaming commission, had a customs broker lined up and ready to go, container ships planned out to transport from Peru to Buenos Aires (no over-land route would have worked: going through Bolivia - too many bandits we were told, and going through Chile to Paraguay meant going through Argentina and all the problems that would cause. airfreight too expensive). The deal ended up falling apart because the Australian in Peru screwed things up, which was too bad because now (or at least, a couple of years ago - I haven't been in two years, too busy), particularly outside the city and in "el campo" of many places in Paraguay, the place is full of slot machines (although simple and inferior to what we were going to import) and we would have made a killing.

I've had a number of deals of various shapes and sizes over the years related to Paraguay, that had I been luckier or had investment money (and not a lot!), I could probably have been rich several times over.

But imagine trying a lot of that here in Argentina. I've done business here and the climate is so different related to business. I find myself really regretting, sometimes, my decision to stay here and concentrate more on international business opportunities that don't involve Argentina instead of moving to Paraguay and taking advantage of the opportunities that someone with a little bit of knowledge and money in an economy where people are friendly to business could find.

My last attempted venture here? Something as simple as a verduleria that was going to require a garantia (something unheard of in Paraguay) or approximately $10K USD in lieu of the garantia and another $4K to real estate agents and owner for deposits, and other, myriad problems that made us throw up our hands and say "nah, not right now".

Alright, so this has gotten off topic from the original post/subject, sorry

 

[ElQueso]

I have been visiting Paraguay for 30 years.
In December i was in Asuncion , Pedro Juan Caballero and Ciudad del Este - Asuncion was very buoyant , the border cities less so as they have felt the effect of the Brazilian slowdown . But in general the people seeemd happy with the President and the changes he has brought in.
I saw a lot of foreign investment and people seem to be keen to look to the medium and long term - totally unlike Argentina

Yeah, Pedro Juan is closer to where my wife's family lives than Asuncion and they talk about it all the time, about how it's booming. I've never actually been, but hope to cure that later this year or early next.

One big problem in Paraguay is the serious class difference. The business folk and emerging middle class are pretty happy with the president, but the poor feel they are being left out. But I do find it interesting that after ousting Lugo (non-Colorado) they didn't replace him with a Colorado member. It's as if the Colorado Party is seeing some writing on the wall and they are opening up a bit, at least in the light.

I was talking to my wife a little earlier about a family issue and we were discussing the new president, by coincidence. Because of her experiences growing up, before she came to Argentina, she has a different take on the matter of the government and the current president. Unfortunately, even though she pretty much knows better, she still looks at things in terms of "what has the government done for us". Her father has had many problems with people taking advantage of him and leaving him in debt (related to buying sesame, mostly) and what she can't see is that many times it is not up to the government, but rather someone who won't treat the lower class folk like serfs and give them real chances that is needed; not laws to restrict activity but help expanding their horizons. If my father-in-law was better educated, for example, he wouldn't be taken advantage of like he has been.

I don't think making laws is what's needed, to force everyone to be fair, but rather education. I see what labor and housing laws (to name two big ones) have done in Argentina to stifle things and I just don't think that's the answer. The poor in Paraguay need someone to invest in them, to give them a better chance to do more than barely survive. Government programs that "help the poor" tend to make them serfs every bit as much as the rich would do, particularly the more ignorant the poor are. That's one of the reasons my oldest is going to international business school, with an eye toward returning to Paraguay at some point to help start a microloan organization, backed up with educational programs from how to read and write, to how to manage personal finances, to how to run a small business (like a small family farm or kiosko), and using external contacts to bring some investment and job opportunities into the poorer parts of Paraguay. Or something along those lines.

Something to help break the stranglehold the Colorado Party has on at least some areas of Paraguay, in terms of the near-feudal system they have now. Start somewhere.

 

[ElQueso]

For all my disagreements with El Queso, I still find his observations on Paraguay informative.

Well, I enjoy finding common ground with those with whom I disagree on many things!

I just wish you weren't so dismissive and antagonistic when making your points

 

[Joe]

Could the Pope in his visit offer council on how to resolve the Stenoblauch Feud?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Could the Pope in his visit offer council on how to resolve the Stenoblauch Feud?

I would never accept any sort of intercession from someone who heads an institution based on fairy tales. Admittedly, though, it may be unfair of me to have engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.